Active Users:1035 Time:21/10/2026 02:57:53 AM
Re: It's interesting to look at the beginning of the story from Draco's point of view. Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/07/2010 03:18:02 PM
Draco:

The comparison to Dudley sets him up as distasteful. But it is strange to see how everything he says in the first meeting is so clearly just a repetition of what he has heard from others (his father, mainly, I suppose). He is saying "the right thing" based on the circles he is used to, and does not seem aware that it is not on outside of that circle. He is trying to bond with Harry and is rejected.

And then he is rejected again in the train, while his lackeys are standing by. Like what she does with Dumbledore, Rowling gives the character first, then the background information: Ron only tells us Draco's family is Bad after Draco has shown himself to be bad, or at least contemptible, on his own.

As you say, the things he's saying on the first meeting are just the things his parents have been telling him all that time. I wonder if he's met Crabbe and Goyle before? It's tempting to see his situation when boarding the train as really rather similar to Harry's - alone, in a large group of children that he's never really had any contact with, and looking to make friends despite the handicap of his background. Then he meets Crabbe and Goyle and that altercation with Harry, Ron and Hermione happens - but if he hasn't met Crabbe and Goyle yet, all Draco is really doing in that scene is try to show off to his new friends the way his father always does, because that's how he's been taught to act. Then his early associations and those of his father determine his later course in Hogwarts, largely thanks to the system with the four houses which encourages clique formation and rivalry and strife, and in the end the evolution to budding Death Eater is a fairly natural one. The way his father buys him a spot on the Quidditch team in Chamber of Secrets is lame and pathetic in the eyes of the protagonists, but it also tells us that Draco is under significant pressure from his parents, who are interfering more with his life at Hogwarts and with his friends than he might actually like. I think he's rather lonely, despite the appearances, from the start, not just in book six. His bought or wowed friends can't be much of a support, especially not in competitive and merciless Slytherin.


He cannot possibly enjoy the company of Crabbe and Goyle. That is fairly obvious from the conversation we get when Harry and Ron sneak into the Slytherin common room as them. Yet they appear to be his closest friends. It could be that he has met them through his father, or that he knows their parents are affiliated with his father. But that is rather too much politics for a 11-yearold to handle, I feel.

One of Rowling's greatest strengths, as has been mentioned in several posts here already, is to write a children's story that has additional layers for adults without giving the children the feeling they're missing anything. I suppose it could be the benefit of hindsight that creates most of the shades of grey in these earliest novels, but for both Draco and Snape there is some grey even in this book when viewed alone.


Yes.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
Reply to message
Harry Potter Re-read: The Philosopher's Stone - Final section underway! (& next book plans) - 12/07/2010 08:27:51 AM 3895 Views
Chapters 1-3: Introducing Harry - 12/07/2010 08:28:49 AM 2126 Views
Characterisation *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:29:02 AM 1225 Views
My thoughts, such as they are. - 12/07/2010 04:09:55 PM 2234 Views
Agree. She gave us enough to make it interesting. - 12/07/2010 06:45:46 PM 2171 Views
Re: My thoughts, such as they are. *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:43:49 PM 2186 Views
You hit the nail on the head. - 13/07/2010 12:20:19 AM 2055 Views
Re: You hit the nail on the head. - 13/07/2010 08:51:45 AM 2038 Views
Writing style *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:29:18 AM 1202 Views
A couple of points. - 12/07/2010 04:10:20 PM 1994 Views
It is very clear it is a children's book at this time - 12/07/2010 07:18:14 PM 2219 Views
True. - 12/07/2010 07:36:49 PM 2153 Views
Re: It is very clear it is a children's book at this time - 12/07/2010 09:31:11 PM 2352 Views
Re: It is very clear it is a children's book at this time - 12/07/2010 09:51:23 PM 1958 Views
Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. - 13/07/2010 04:03:26 AM 2210 Views
Re: Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. - 13/07/2010 08:54:40 AM 2158 Views
Re: Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. - 13/07/2010 01:14:01 PM 2204 Views
Indeed. - 13/07/2010 01:15:23 PM 1989 Views
Early themes *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:29:37 AM 1290 Views
Strong vs weak *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:23:45 PM 1983 Views
- 12/07/2010 07:43:27 PM 2018 Views
Re: - 12/07/2010 07:44:56 PM 1983 Views
Chapters 4-10: Making Friends at Hogwarts *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:29:58 AM 1137 Views
Impressions: thoughts about the school, the teachers, the enemies and the friends. *NM* - 14/07/2010 08:29:38 AM 1171 Views
I'd forgotten how annoying Hermione was - 14/07/2010 01:48:13 PM 2060 Views
Me too. - 14/07/2010 04:30:13 PM 1975 Views
Yep. I like seeing her transformation in this story though. - 14/07/2010 04:58:04 PM 2019 Views
Some thoughts before I run off to the library again - 14/07/2010 06:11:45 PM 2274 Views
Good points - 14/07/2010 08:45:56 PM 2151 Views
It's interesting to look at the beginning of the story from Draco's point of view. - 26/07/2010 03:08:38 PM 2390 Views
Re: It's interesting to look at the beginning of the story from Draco's point of view. - 26/07/2010 03:18:02 PM 2021 Views
What about the magic? - 14/07/2010 08:58:51 AM 2029 Views
The magic wasnt really developed at this point - 14/07/2010 02:13:41 PM 1956 Views
Re: The magic wasnt really developed at this point - 14/07/2010 08:53:08 PM 2193 Views
There was one powerful protection - 15/07/2010 01:29:49 AM 2149 Views
I agree - 15/07/2010 04:51:05 AM 2159 Views
Re: I agree - 15/07/2010 05:44:41 AM 1995 Views
Re: There was one powerful protection - 15/07/2010 08:12:40 AM 2310 Views
I think - 14/07/2010 04:34:30 PM 1958 Views
Diagon Alley - Olivander's Foreshadowing - 14/07/2010 05:11:40 PM 2268 Views
Re: Diagon Alley - Olivander's Foreshadowing - 14/07/2010 08:51:06 PM 1960 Views
Agreed. - 14/07/2010 08:57:55 PM 2001 Views
I really need a remembrall. - 14/07/2010 08:57:10 PM 2146 Views
I felt bad for Neville. - 14/07/2010 09:03:49 PM 2097 Views
Indeed. - 14/07/2010 09:05:40 PM 1969 Views
But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! - 15/07/2010 02:51:47 AM 2248 Views
I know, right! - 15/07/2010 06:41:01 AM 1969 Views
Exactly. - 15/07/2010 03:22:18 PM 1915 Views
Re: But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! - 15/07/2010 08:15:55 AM 2025 Views
Ah, see - 15/07/2010 03:23:49 PM 1933 Views
Chapters 11-17: Harry the Hero *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:30:29 AM 1162 Views
What'd you think of the ending? *NM* - 15/07/2010 05:21:38 PM 1120 Views
Loved it. - 15/07/2010 05:56:06 PM 2025 Views
Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 07:14:08 PM 2010 Views
I hear you - 15/07/2010 08:22:05 PM 2052 Views
Re: Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 08:48:21 PM 2036 Views
I can clarify some stuff for you - 15/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 2114 Views
One of the most sublime, wonderful moments of any book - 15/07/2010 08:18:29 PM 1890 Views
Yes! - 15/07/2010 10:39:11 PM 2038 Views
Lovely - 15/07/2010 09:00:11 PM 2124 Views
Haha - 15/07/2010 09:16:16 PM 2208 Views
Re: Haha - 15/07/2010 09:24:06 PM 2131 Views
But I thought all girls were made of sugar and spice and everything nice? - 15/07/2010 09:26:53 PM 1964 Views
Oh, we are. - 15/07/2010 09:35:17 PM 1888 Views
Ah like vodka vs. wine coolers? *NM* - 15/07/2010 09:48:26 PM 1119 Views
Gin - 15/07/2010 09:49:33 PM 2005 Views
I was 16. - 15/07/2010 10:49:33 PM 1869 Views
So was I - 15/07/2010 10:54:24 PM 1911 Views
Honestly, dumbledore is a bit of an ass... - 15/07/2010 10:48:32 PM 1888 Views
Heresy! - 15/07/2010 10:55:28 PM 1906 Views
As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 03:05:05 AM 2217 Views
Re: As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 11:14:56 AM 2110 Views
In fairness, it's Hogwarts itself that is all but impregnable. - 26/07/2010 03:55:02 PM 2024 Views
A funny thing I noticed - 15/07/2010 09:00:42 PM 2130 Views
- 15/07/2010 09:18:08 PM 1975 Views
Overall thoughts for the book - 12/07/2010 08:31:37 AM 2007 Views
Foreshadowing and setting up the future - 12/07/2010 08:32:10 AM 1935 Views
Harry's anger management issues? - 12/07/2010 07:14:58 PM 2032 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:40:40 PM 2047 Views
Nah, not deliberate. - 12/07/2010 09:14:20 PM 2101 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 12/07/2010 09:55:32 PM 2037 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:02:59 PM 1981 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:04:42 PM 2083 Views
I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:22:54 PM 2153 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:39:25 PM 2087 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:45:32 PM 2061 Views
~smug~ - 13/07/2010 02:09:15 PM 2022 Views
Indeed. - 13/07/2010 02:10:41 PM 2281 Views
This response implies the experience of being both?? - 13/07/2010 03:23:29 PM 2023 Views
On Ginny: - 12/07/2010 10:36:47 PM 2180 Views
So much (chapters 1-3) *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:35:57 PM 2282 Views
Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:38:05 PM 2110 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:08 PM 2108 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:53 PM 1914 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:44:16 PM 1834 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 04:41:12 AM 1925 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 08:55:09 AM 2003 Views
I missed the school roof thing this time around too! Good catch there. *NM* - 12/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 1178 Views
The thing that tipped me off - 12/07/2010 09:53:01 PM 2034 Views
Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 09:18:35 PM 2232 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:30:23 PM 2071 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:55:01 PM 2027 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 11:05:59 PM 2059 Views
I can answer your consistency question! - 15/07/2010 02:35:42 AM 2189 Views
You are a clever cookie. - 15/07/2010 08:14:25 AM 2022 Views
Yes - 15/07/2010 03:30:36 PM 1865 Views
Ooh, yes. - 16/07/2010 12:19:13 AM 1865 Views
More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 08:55:34 PM 1887 Views
Re: More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 09:19:13 PM 2035 Views
Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:23:15 PM 2106 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:28:04 PM 2014 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 07:12:39 PM 2252 Views
I like it. Thank you. - 20/07/2010 12:53:37 AM 2216 Views
What made this book (and the rest of the series) such a success? - 12/07/2010 08:33:00 AM 2136 Views
I have no idea *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:47:58 PM 2213 Views
I agree... - 12/07/2010 09:19:59 PM 2193 Views
It has tons of things in it that every kid dreams of doing - 14/07/2010 01:56:05 PM 2126 Views
Kid? - 14/07/2010 02:01:30 PM 2116 Views
so do I. I was just trying to act mature *NM* - 14/07/2010 02:08:01 PM 1292 Views
Not even just the super stuff Deadsy mentions. - 14/07/2010 04:38:46 PM 2243 Views
It's a simple, well-done little book. - 12/07/2010 07:46:48 PM 2177 Views
you don't read instructions, do you? - 12/07/2010 07:49:24 PM 2184 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:50:23 PM 2094 Views
Re: Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:51:40 PM 2098 Views
Awwww! - 12/07/2010 07:52:19 PM 2066 Views
- 12/07/2010 07:52:52 PM 2140 Views
Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:50:44 PM 2180 Views
Re: Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:52:21 PM 2113 Views
Pff. - 12/07/2010 07:54:54 PM 2112 Views
*NM* - 12/07/2010 07:56:03 PM 1309 Views
When did you pick up this book? - 12/07/2010 11:30:46 PM 2040 Views
I was 10. - 13/07/2010 04:13:44 AM 2194 Views
I was 16. - 13/07/2010 08:24:02 AM 2125 Views
1999 - 13/07/2010 09:03:03 AM 2116 Views
What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:15:40 PM 2239 Views
Re: What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:17:40 PM 2113 Views
Just before the first movie came out - 13/07/2010 02:17:42 PM 2273 Views
When Prisoner of Azkaban was a hardback. - 13/07/2010 02:23:57 PM 2140 Views
Just after Goblet of Fire was published. - 13/07/2010 11:50:38 PM 2199 Views
Just before Goblet of Fire came out. - 14/07/2010 04:04:21 AM 2135 Views
The first five were out, waited for HBP. - 14/07/2010 06:20:39 AM 2280 Views
You're making me want to talk about toadface - 14/07/2010 02:06:25 PM 2163 Views
Sorry! - 15/07/2010 06:36:11 AM 2241 Views
I held out quite awhile because I don't like "fads" - 14/07/2010 02:04:37 PM 2097 Views
Lol! - 14/07/2010 08:54:47 PM 2195 Views
I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 06:39:16 AM 2211 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 10:01:04 AM 2404 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 05:44:28 PM 2287 Views
I would have, if I had known there was hype. I know I would have. - 15/07/2010 03:28:50 PM 2279 Views
- 15/07/2010 05:47:01 PM 2263 Views
I think I was first! - 23/07/2010 07:05:08 PM 2222 Views
Aged 13 or 14 - a while before the first movie (which was Christmas 2001). *NM* - 26/07/2010 04:13:55 PM 1314 Views
Jesus Christ. - 26/07/2010 05:04:46 PM 2338 Views
^That was me. *NM* - 26/07/2010 09:55:49 PM 1329 Views
I was going to ask if it was. *NM* - 26/07/2010 10:04:59 PM 1277 Views
Suggestions for the Re-read - 12/07/2010 08:33:25 AM 2157 Views
I like it so far - 13/07/2010 10:16:49 AM 2136 Views
I can try that for the next book. - 13/07/2010 11:21:01 PM 2120 Views
Can we get chapter discussions everyday? *NM* - 15/07/2010 06:40:30 PM 1255 Views
Inconsistencies Re: the Potter's death... - 15/07/2010 05:16:45 AM 2503 Views
Because they were tricked? They considered Peter and Sirius to be brothers. - 15/07/2010 07:05:27 AM 2131 Views
That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 01:08:40 AM 2079 Views
Take it up with Rowling, since you don't believe me. *NM* - 16/07/2010 08:19:58 AM 1192 Views
What's there to believe? - 18/07/2010 06:03:13 AM 2168 Views
Re: That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 09:37:59 AM 2257 Views
Also - 16/07/2010 11:17:51 AM 2514 Views
You are correct! There is no inconsistency - 17/07/2010 04:17:35 AM 2200 Views
Huh? - 18/07/2010 05:57:58 AM 2045 Views
But Camilla explained it! - 18/07/2010 09:27:55 AM 2365 Views
Correction - 18/07/2010 10:58:59 AM 2214 Views
I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:42:18 PM 2067 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:51:36 PM 2098 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:17:04 PM 2395 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:28:27 PM 2096 Views
That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:17:14 PM 2181 Views
Re: That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:20:44 PM 2036 Views
Yet... - 18/07/2010 07:47:56 PM 2101 Views
Re: Yet... - 18/07/2010 08:02:31 PM 2115 Views
To quote Dumbledore... - 19/07/2010 05:57:23 AM 2040 Views
Again... - 18/07/2010 07:35:10 PM 2345 Views
Re: Again... - 18/07/2010 08:00:55 PM 2138 Views
Re: Again... - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM 2328 Views
Re: Again... - 20/07/2010 04:45:16 PM 2161 Views
Yet another load of bosh. - 21/07/2010 01:00:14 AM 2116 Views
Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 06:48:45 AM 2257 Views
Re: Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 04:19:35 PM 2132 Views
My two cents - 19/07/2010 06:11:30 AM 2258 Views
It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 12:11:20 AM 2612 Views
Re: It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 09:20:46 AM 2025 Views
You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 04:23:31 PM 2120 Views
Re: You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 05:06:43 PM 2309 Views
I don't know that I'd call it "see through Pettigrew"... - 26/07/2010 06:22:19 PM 2087 Views
^That was me, too. Oh, dear. - 26/07/2010 09:56:43 PM 2318 Views
Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 18/07/2010 07:14:21 PM 2118 Views
Re: Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 26/07/2010 05:07:48 PM 2525 Views
^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 09:58:07 PM 2128 Views
Re: ^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 10:05:41 PM 2039 Views
- 26/07/2010 10:07:36 PM 1932 Views

Reply to Message