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I generally do. Camilla Send a noteboard - 30/09/2010 11:19:05 PM
Ibn Khaldun lived in the... I want to say 14th century in North Africa, and wanted to write a world history. He well may have done, too, but posterity only really cares for the superb introduction to it (muqaddimah is Arabic for "introduction" or "prologue";), which has a number of extremely modern-sounding ideas on economics, sociology and their influence on history. He analyses things like power structures, the differences between rural and urban communities, tribal nomadic cultures transitioning into sedentary ones, economic concepts, and so on. I've read even less of him than of the Greek and Latin authors, as I read even slower in (hard) Arabic than in those languages, but I was very impressed by what I did read.


That sounds interesting.

As for the Dutch ones, I imagine you'd be able to read them if you tried, what with Norwegian being closet Dutch. ;) Hooft is a 16th century history and poet, wrote Petrarca-esque sonnets and iirc some history on rhyme that I've never bothered to read. Vondel is a bit later, poet and playwright, and notable for having written a play, Lucifer, which is a likely influence on Milton's Paradise Lost (we have reason to believe Milton knew enough Dutch to read it).


I will not be reading Dutch poetry in Dutch, thank you very much. Prose I might handle. Not potery.

I agree. On all counts. Except I haven't read Achterberg and this Elroy Flecker person. I did not list Borges, but that was only because I got paranoid about period. I felt that if I was going to list him, I would have to list Calvino, and that would open a can of worms. It is silly. I think it is because Borges is so post-modern in outlook, while writing earlier.

I like both Virgil and Dickens, but I can see how some might not. Or how you might hesitate to approach them. It is a little like the image of Tolstoy's War and Peace that is bandied about. None of them are actually what they are presented as. Dickens is cheery much of the time, and almost always end on a happy ending. Virgil does draw on Greek myth, but it really transforms it, and I think anyone interested in history will find it fascinating.

Makes sense. I think I actually may have read a prose summary of the Aeneid, or some such... but not the real thing. I'm sure I'll read them at some point.


If you want to start easy on Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities or The Mystery of Edwin Drood might be good. Little Dorrit and Bleak House (paradoxically) are both quite happy in the end. For some. Not all.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Classics - general discussion / survey - 30/09/2010 03:52:53 PM 1323 Views
My own answers. - 30/09/2010 04:38:33 PM 912 Views
I'm trying to read a bit of Shakespeare at the moment - 30/09/2010 07:20:02 PM 859 Views
Re: I'm trying to read a bit of Shakespeare at the moment - 30/09/2010 09:14:23 PM 842 Views
Get a copy with annotations! - 30/09/2010 10:56:12 PM 833 Views
Re: My own answers. - 30/09/2010 09:02:08 PM 934 Views
Powdered Soup! - 30/09/2010 09:23:51 PM 955 Views
Re: Powdered Soup! - 30/09/2010 09:34:06 PM 1208 Views
Re: Powdered Soup! - 30/09/2010 10:07:20 PM 896 Views
Re: Powdered Soup! - 30/09/2010 10:10:32 PM 1061 Views
They are much, much worse than powder soup. - 30/09/2010 09:50:07 PM 795 Views
Well, since they're made of paper... - 30/09/2010 10:09:41 PM 878 Views
Re: My own answers. - 30/09/2010 11:35:36 PM 907 Views
Cliff's notes - 05/10/2010 08:05:56 PM 962 Views
Re: Cliff's notes - 05/10/2010 09:21:06 PM 1184 Views
Re: Cliff's notes - 06/10/2010 01:40:38 AM 974 Views
It's cool. - 06/10/2010 04:42:13 PM 1015 Views
A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 30/09/2010 05:33:35 PM 887 Views
Re: A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 30/09/2010 06:46:02 PM 915 Views
Re: A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 30/09/2010 10:57:23 PM 852 Views
Re: A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 30/09/2010 11:39:16 PM 742 Views
Camilla, that's just because you're an atheist. - 01/10/2010 09:37:34 PM 806 Views
Yes. - 01/10/2010 09:51:32 PM 788 Views
Re: A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 01/10/2010 12:20:51 AM 972 Views
totally problematic classics - 30/09/2010 08:07:22 PM 952 Views
Re: totally problematic classics - 30/09/2010 09:26:46 PM 856 Views
I study them, apparently. - 30/09/2010 08:44:40 PM 980 Views
I wish I could do that. - 30/09/2010 09:49:57 PM 886 Views
Less fun than you'd think. - 30/09/2010 10:52:10 PM 775 Views
Good survey. - 30/09/2010 10:23:18 PM 963 Views
Agreed. edited - 30/09/2010 10:37:48 PM 932 Views
But but but Milton is beautiful - 30/09/2010 10:46:06 PM 866 Views
Sometimes. - 30/09/2010 10:47:28 PM 881 Views
Maybe I was unclear. - 30/09/2010 10:55:22 PM 892 Views
Re: Maybe I was unclear. - 30/09/2010 10:57:41 PM 769 Views
I'm glad you approve on the whole. - 30/09/2010 11:12:00 PM 897 Views
I generally do. - 30/09/2010 11:19:05 PM 892 Views
Excellent. Might as well include a Hooft poem anyway, in case anyone's interested... - 30/09/2010 11:40:24 PM 1046 Views
Re: Excellent. Might as well include a Hooft poem anyway, in case anyone's interested... - 30/09/2010 11:43:20 PM 882 Views
Dickens - 01/10/2010 02:42:42 PM 875 Views
Re: I generally do. - 30/09/2010 11:54:11 PM 943 Views
Oh, and link to the Flecker poem: - 30/09/2010 11:42:30 PM 779 Views
Re: Good survey. - 01/10/2010 02:52:27 AM 1045 Views
My classics - 30/09/2010 10:54:56 PM 855 Views
Re: My classics - 01/10/2010 03:01:24 AM 930 Views
Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 30/09/2010 11:30:41 PM 988 Views
Re: Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 01/10/2010 03:18:58 AM 836 Views
Re: Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 01/10/2010 05:20:10 AM 928 Views
Re: Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 01/10/2010 02:05:35 PM 873 Views
Re: Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 02/10/2010 04:07:10 AM 885 Views
Ha, we weren't that far off after all. - 04/10/2010 08:11:39 PM 823 Views
I will not list 300+ books here, I promise - 01/10/2010 12:36:17 AM 974 Views
O'Connor is wonderful. But I am not sure many can appreciate her. - 01/10/2010 02:50:54 AM 682 Views
I agree, thus the "confound" part in there - 01/10/2010 02:53:26 AM 763 Views
I figured as much. - 01/10/2010 03:08:26 AM 805 Views
I expected you to have quite a few as well. - 01/10/2010 03:25:06 AM 880 Views
Re: I will not list 300+ books here, I promise - 02/10/2010 11:23:37 AM 931 Views
Criminy, I thought I was done with essay questions years ago. - 01/10/2010 01:39:56 AM 910 Views
Glad to bring back the school days. - 01/10/2010 01:49:48 PM 934 Views
Re: Glad to bring back the school days. - 02/10/2010 05:32:47 AM 764 Views
not sure but I don't believe in instant classics - 02/10/2010 05:22:07 AM 916 Views
the bf and I are going to do a "Paradise Lost" book club... - 02/10/2010 08:29:38 AM 1025 Views
Mm, Doré's engravings are gorgeous. - 02/10/2010 11:40:48 AM 948 Views
Re: Mm, Doré's engravings are gorgeous. - 02/10/2010 09:42:37 PM 910 Views

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