Active Users:1981 Time:27/10/2025 03:26:38 PM
Re: hm. Camilla Send a noteboard - 18/10/2010 11:46:23 AM
I am intending to post something on Turgenev's women in this book, but for now let me say this: Katya follows the trend that "natural" women who stick to feelings rather than opinion and intellect are the more admirable mate. It bugs me. She has no personality of her own, apart from having hidden and being afraid of her more outspoken and organised sister (who has faults of her own, but still) -- Katya is a natural being who needs a man to find her, and I find I am getting slightly nauseated.

That will be fun to read. And my point was not that she's only important once found, but that Turgenev allows her to be something other than what Bazarov complains about, and other than the beautiful and intelligent Anna. She's a regular girl, which means she doesn't have to be something special. But it turns out that she could be, if anyone took the time to find out. I thought that was interesting, for what we've seen of Russian literature so far.

I didn't get that Turgenev had such a low opinion of women. In fact, Bazarov's low opinion of women seemed to be one of the obnoxiously false original stances he took. Then Turgenev introduced us to other options.

I don't know, my impression is simply different, I suppose. He does mention that Arkady and she share an interest in frivolities, so you could be right- I just put that down to the fact that she was young, and as yet undamaged by life (unlike Anna). Especially if you look back - when we meet her, one of the first comments is about how young and "green" she is. In my opinion, that doesn't mean she's worthless, or waiting to be shaped by a man. It just means she's young, and has been overshadowed by her powerful sister. In fact, Bazarov's comment that she will be something, and will take Arkady in hand underlined that for me (he says she's not falsely clever). She is the unruined Anna (and I don't mean to be so harsh on Anna, but she's obviously learned things during her years/marriage/etc).


You are probably right. I may be worked up over nothing here. It is just that I started getting annoyed when seeing Kukshina, because as she is clearly an idiot, her positions are tainted, and one of those is on the potential of women. And then it just kept turning out that all the men were choosing the most natural women they could find, intelligence being somewhat too much -- except for Bazarov, which I suppose is a redeeming point (for both him and Turgenev's women).
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
Reply to message
Russian Book Club: Fathers and Sons by Turgenev. - 17/10/2010 01:39:16 AM 995 Views
Bazarov - 17/10/2010 02:12:03 PM 818 Views
never mind *NM* - 17/10/2010 02:15:16 PM 339 Views
The novel is very interested in inter-generational issues. - 17/10/2010 05:28:29 PM 718 Views
Re: The novel is very interested in inter-generational issues. - 17/10/2010 11:59:37 PM 798 Views
oh, and - 17/10/2010 06:42:38 PM 706 Views
Re: oh, and - 18/10/2010 12:09:10 AM 689 Views
I like the way you said that - 19/10/2010 05:31:05 AM 729 Views
Re: I like the way you said that - 19/10/2010 09:24:00 AM 684 Views
I had pretty much the same reaction as you. - 22/10/2010 07:05:37 PM 764 Views
Arkady - 17/10/2010 02:15:54 PM 676 Views
Well, that makes sense - 17/10/2010 05:12:09 PM 674 Views
Re: Well, that makes sense - 18/10/2010 12:04:05 AM 688 Views
According to a footnote in my (Dutch) copy... - 18/10/2010 10:55:22 PM 702 Views
Ясень and ясный - 18/10/2010 11:41:24 PM 697 Views
See, I liked Arkady - 17/10/2010 06:08:57 PM 617 Views
Re: See, I liked Arkady - 18/10/2010 12:13:49 AM 659 Views
hm. - 18/10/2010 01:06:44 AM 758 Views
Re: hm. - 18/10/2010 11:46:23 AM 888 Views
Re: hm. - 19/10/2010 05:38:02 AM 717 Views
Re: See, I liked Arkady - 18/10/2010 10:51:59 PM 656 Views
Re: Arkady - 22/10/2010 07:09:14 PM 700 Views
Oh...Rebekah, I was going to mention that I saw your post only much later because I was very drunk. - 17/10/2010 05:13:41 PM 697 Views
Heh, no worries. - 18/10/2010 11:07:00 AM 635 Views
Good book. - 17/10/2010 06:37:16 PM 717 Views
Agreed. - 18/10/2010 11:55:11 AM 795 Views
Re: Agreed. - 19/10/2010 06:02:18 AM 718 Views
Re: Agreed. - 19/10/2010 09:26:25 AM 632 Views
I didn't think Odintsova trapped him. - 18/10/2010 11:03:37 PM 692 Views
Re: I didn't think Odintsova trapped him. - 18/10/2010 11:31:40 PM 758 Views
Re: I didn't think Odintsova trapped him. - 19/10/2010 05:13:26 AM 689 Views
I think you might be overanalyzing the birch tree statement. - 18/10/2010 11:45:12 PM 656 Views
I disagree - 19/10/2010 05:27:07 AM 692 Views
I loved it. Great book. - 18/10/2010 10:49:27 PM 651 Views
Re: I loved it. Great book. - 18/10/2010 11:33:42 PM 629 Views
I think it's very relevant. It's also unusually un-Russian. - 18/10/2010 11:54:03 PM 622 Views
Yeah... the Russian nobility at the time seems to have been kind of un-Russian, really. - 20/10/2010 04:03:34 PM 684 Views
It felt very Russian to me as well - 20/10/2010 04:12:50 PM 629 Views
I really wish I'd bought a properly annotated version. - 22/10/2010 07:07:16 PM 727 Views
The answer to that is to just read a great book on Nineteenth Century Russian history. - 22/10/2010 10:55:06 PM 705 Views
Can you recommend one? - 22/10/2010 10:55:56 PM 984 Views
"One" is where it starts to get harder. - 23/10/2010 01:45:03 AM 715 Views
Nikolai and Pavel - I love them. - 22/10/2010 07:14:11 PM 804 Views
Perhaps it's Pavel's "The Chap"-ish nature that makes the novel seem less Russian to me. - 22/10/2010 10:53:56 PM 766 Views
Ah, that's a good point. - 22/10/2010 10:54:56 PM 640 Views
The women - 22/10/2010 07:18:45 PM 735 Views

Reply to Message