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Because he is shit? Camilla Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 09:38:59 PM
I'm posting this discussion as its own thread because I've seen a lot of visceral hatred of Dan Brown and all things appurtenant thereto, and I frankly don't understand it.

From what I can tell, people hate Dan Brown for one of the following reasons:

1. He writes fiction but pretends that some of it is true or based in truth

2. He plays on the ignorance of the general populace to sell books

or

3. He slanders the Roman Catholic Church and traditional Christianity.

Let's take these points in reverse order:

Allegations of Slandering Christianity

First of all, this point shouldn't be relevant in modern society. Enough books, movies and television shows have been made that are far more slanderous or libelous from a standpoint of faith than Dan Brown's little books. The Last Temptation of Christ is just as unorthodox, The Jesus Mysteries claim that there was no historical Jesus and your standard Jack Chick comic strip is more rabidly anti-Catholic than the lot just mentioned. Furthermore, Dan Brown's notion about Jesus and Mary Magdalene is simply a regurgitation of ideas and beliefs that were around in 300 AD (with the exception of the Merovingian bloodline claims, which are just silly). Regardless, given the composition of this website, I don't think this is the primary reason your average RAFhOle doesn't like Dan Brown.

Allegations Dan Brown Uses Ignorance to His Advantage

Good for him! People who choose to remain ignorant deserve a good fleecing every now and then. Furthermore, I don't see how Dan Brown in this regard is different from thousands of writers who print books for the gullible public which are NOT in novel form but which purport to "document" alien encounters, seances with spirits, the Loch Ness Monster, the Yeti, hollow earth theories, Illuminati conspiracies and the like. Dan Brown does admit that his book is a work of fiction. He isn't like John Edward, who claims he can speak with dead people for money, or even like your garden variety psychic or astrologer, the vast majority of whom are almost certainly quacks.

Allegations Dan Brown passes off Fiction as Fact

Basically, from what I can tell, the problems that people have in this regard is that he states that the Priory of Sion is centuries old, when in fact it is clearly not, or a few other points like that. The simple fact is that a lot of the material that he references to make his work of fiction are really in existence. I own a critical edition of the Nag Hammadi library in English and Coptic and there is indeed a Gnostic text where Jesus and Mary Magdalene are said to be more than just friends and that they would kiss one another in front of the disciples. There is a gnomon in St. Sulpice.

Yes, Brown misstates some things and exaggerates the importance of other things. On the other hand, how is he different from virtually ever writer of fiction out there? Hell, let's take an example of a movie that I like - The Mummy with Brendan Fraser. As someone with a love of Egypt, the film is about maybe 2% accurate in its portrayal of Egypt (if that). The sequel was even worse, though admittedly some of the errors that I found the grossest were the result of the studios asking Egyptologists about constructed original forms for words rather than New Kingdom vocalizations, which led to silly pronunciations like "yamun" for what should have been "aman" (indeed, the Amarna Letters confirm this pronunciation and scholars have written that there is no dispute about this pronunciation, nor has there been for over 50 years).

The point is that I'm used to this in entertainment.

What am I missing?



As someone who mainly hates him in part because of the "he pretends he is writing fiction when it suits him, and facts when that suits him", I should probably reply. I would be fine with shitty fiction. People can read it if they want to throw their lives away. It is sad, but there it is. But. He goes out of his way to keep people ignorant. If he said "I took some stuff, couldn't be bothered to actually check my facts, because, you know, I don't have that kind of respect for my readers; and then I lumped it together with some two-dimensional characters in a semi-predictable plot", I would be fine with that.

But he only says "this is fiction" whenever someone confronts him with all his facts being wrong. I have seen him sit on National Geographic saying "this is Truth (apart from the two-dimensional characters, which was all my sad excuse for a brain could muster)" (he may not have actually said the bit in the paranthesis). THAT annoys me.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
also, here is a rather longer one in Norwegian, written a few years back
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Why is it that so many people hate Dan Brown? - 14/09/2009 09:24:31 PM 2181 Views
His prose is bad. Very bad. - 14/09/2009 09:28:28 PM 1035 Views
It's not any worse than Robert Jordan's prose. I'd say it's better, in fact. - 14/09/2009 09:30:17 PM 908 Views
Re: It's not any worse than Robert Jordan's prose. I'd say it's better, in fact. - 14/09/2009 09:32:44 PM 1057 Views
In defense of italics... - 14/09/2009 11:58:35 PM 1000 Views
Re: In defense of italics... - 15/09/2009 08:02:56 AM 1014 Views
I just rechecked... - 15/09/2009 11:17:23 AM 921 Views
Thereby... - 15/09/2009 10:31:44 PM 959 Views
I have a problem with comparing those italics. - 15/09/2009 10:33:53 PM 960 Views
Oh probably - 15/09/2009 10:40:15 PM 957 Views
Hehe - 15/09/2009 10:42:23 PM 1047 Views
In defense of nothing in particular... - 15/09/2009 11:16:09 PM 1042 Views
Re: Thereby... - 16/09/2009 10:40:18 AM 1097 Views
I love that line, and nothing you say will change that. - 15/09/2009 11:15:29 PM 931 Views
That line is great - 15/09/2009 11:21:03 PM 948 Views
Jordan didn't have the good sense TO FINISH ANY FUCKING PLOT THREAD - 15/09/2009 04:46:06 AM 939 Views
Wow, the vehemence. - 15/09/2009 05:55:38 AM 959 Views
Riddle me this, Batman - if he weren't dying, would he have even done that? *NM* - 15/09/2009 01:53:57 PM 567 Views
Yes. - 15/09/2009 03:38:34 PM 957 Views
burn *NM* - 15/09/2009 04:24:49 PM 447 Views
Relevant post as always Celia *NM* - 15/09/2009 11:36:34 PM 540 Views
So you say... - 16/09/2009 02:17:47 AM 922 Views
No, he didn't. - 16/09/2009 04:44:31 AM 986 Views
Re: Jordan didn't have the good sense TO FINISH ANY FUCKING PLOT THREAD - 15/09/2009 08:05:26 AM 973 Views
His attitude to history isn't really any different from that of most writers - 15/09/2009 01:54:55 PM 931 Views
Except - 15/09/2009 04:56:23 PM 957 Views
And ALSO except - 17/09/2009 02:59:03 PM 1051 Views
Re: And ALSO except - 17/09/2009 05:27:40 PM 935 Views
I vehemently disagree with this! - 14/09/2009 09:33:05 PM 1224 Views
How many chapters of Aes Sedai dresses and horse names did we go through in his books? - 15/09/2009 04:45:04 AM 973 Views
I'd have a slow moving plot to fast moving nonsense any day. - 15/09/2009 05:36:20 AM 1031 Views
With Jordan, that movement was glacial - 15/09/2009 01:58:08 PM 926 Views
so...your problem with jordan is that you're impatient? - 15/09/2009 04:26:07 PM 876 Views
How many of us can say we're not antsy to know what happened? - 15/09/2009 05:03:24 PM 939 Views
So plot progression is all that matters? What about the other stuff I mentioned? *NM* - 15/09/2009 04:50:06 PM 440 Views
Jordan's characters are just as two-dimensional as Brown's - 16/09/2009 02:17:19 AM 889 Views
Bull... - 16/09/2009 03:15:49 AM 935 Views
No, I think you're just blinded by liking WoT - 17/09/2009 03:00:28 PM 898 Views
No, you seem to be blinded by disliking him, more like. - 17/09/2009 06:25:21 PM 916 Views
It's not hyperbole. - 17/09/2009 08:13:47 PM 946 Views
Yeah like that's not the case with you and Dan Brown. - 17/09/2009 06:56:37 PM 962 Views
I don't think Dan Brown is a stellar writer. - 17/09/2009 08:11:41 PM 924 Views
Heh. It was "favourite" fantasy series not "best". - 17/09/2009 08:19:02 PM 917 Views
Then why defend him? - 18/09/2009 12:14:35 AM 882 Views
No - 18/09/2009 10:09:02 AM 1051 Views
Examples. - 17/09/2009 01:53:21 AM 1101 Views
LOL - 17/09/2009 03:16:23 PM 976 Views
Because he is shit? - 14/09/2009 09:38:59 PM 1162 Views
Camilla, you've read shit before and liked it. - 15/09/2009 04:43:24 AM 950 Views
Re: Camilla, you've read shit before and liked it. - 15/09/2009 08:04:18 AM 933 Views
Yes, I was talking about the book. - 15/09/2009 01:58:54 PM 882 Views
Re: Yes, I was talking about the book. - 15/09/2009 04:56:53 PM 878 Views
Also - 14/09/2009 09:41:25 PM 964 Views
Hate is a strong word. - 14/09/2009 09:44:02 PM 1043 Views
Nicely put. *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:46:03 PM 474 Views
*NM* - 15/09/2009 04:16:35 AM 482 Views
He still didn't dick around with us as long as Robert Jordan did. *NM* - 15/09/2009 04:41:01 AM 466 Views
I'm not disagreeing with you on that one. *NM* - 15/09/2009 12:12:52 PM 505 Views
Elitism and frustration he sells so much and better authors don't? - 14/09/2009 09:51:39 PM 877 Views
I think so. - 15/09/2009 04:40:20 AM 937 Views
you thought meyers was entertaining???? - 15/09/2009 04:28:48 PM 907 Views
You thought it wasn't entertaining? - 15/09/2009 07:42:06 PM 911 Views
I would phrase that 'better' authors - 15/09/2009 10:29:54 PM 929 Views
Okay, fair enough. - 15/09/2009 11:16:56 PM 842 Views
Given that I know nothing about Dan Brown - 14/09/2009 09:54:15 PM 1025 Views
Pfft! ~locks your reply~ - 14/09/2009 10:00:23 PM 925 Views
ooo, lock me baby! - 14/09/2009 10:12:48 PM 989 Views
A couple of the above points, and Suspension of Disbelief. - 14/09/2009 10:23:26 PM 982 Views
Good point about the "Ridiculous Things", that bugged me too. - 14/09/2009 10:35:32 PM 1047 Views
there is a difference between a book, which is a respectable medium, and a hollywood movie. - 14/09/2009 10:41:06 PM 894 Views
There is really only a difference if you're looking for some higher learnin' - 14/09/2009 10:52:39 PM 965 Views
That statement makes no sense. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:55:53 PM 373 Views
She must have been reading too much Dan Brown. - 14/09/2009 10:58:51 PM 929 Views
Yes it does - 14/09/2009 11:00:41 PM 883 Views
Only to the strangest of elitists. *NM* - 15/09/2009 12:49:53 AM 497 Views
Go read screenplays for fun, populist. *NM* - 15/09/2009 10:20:01 AM 517 Views
- 15/09/2009 06:25:26 PM 922 Views
Oh, I am sorry. - 16/09/2009 11:11:07 AM 811 Views
Well... - 14/09/2009 11:16:00 PM 893 Views
I accept your points, but also your final statement - 15/09/2009 04:38:46 AM 878 Views
More to the point then... people don't really need a good reason to hate something in particular. - 15/09/2009 06:00:33 AM 935 Views
You didn't even like him as Mugatu in Zoolander? *NM* - 15/09/2009 01:47:57 PM 477 Views
Now, now. - 15/09/2009 07:03:48 PM 900 Views
Suspension of disbelief is a relative thing - 15/09/2009 11:25:32 PM 967 Views
Damn near everything is a relative thing. - 16/09/2009 05:25:48 AM 969 Views
I'm indifferent to him - 15/09/2009 01:14:37 AM 946 Views
If you're indifferent, you are apparently in a minority. - 15/09/2009 04:36:28 AM 897 Views
To put Brown's mediocrity in perspective, read Da Vinci and then Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco. *NM* - 15/09/2009 01:32:11 AM 492 Views
Eh, I enjoyed DaVinci better. You can all crucify me now. - 15/09/2009 01:49:28 AM 876 Views
Re: Eh, I enjoyed DaVinci better. You can all crucify me now. - 15/09/2009 01:54:17 AM 1013 Views
Re: Rose - 15/09/2009 02:16:53 AM 909 Views
As someone who appreciated Foucault's Pendulum I don't argue his mediocrity. - 15/09/2009 04:30:31 AM 772 Views
I agree with your last sentence strongly. - 26/09/2009 08:18:42 PM 1119 Views
I don't hate him, and I've never read any of his books - 15/09/2009 01:45:37 AM 883 Views
He was over hyped to me. - 15/09/2009 04:15:32 AM 894 Views
I agree it was way overhyped. - 16/09/2009 02:12:39 AM 845 Views
Heh, I actually had the opposite. - 16/09/2009 05:26:55 AM 917 Views
The thing I hate the most is actually the fans who suddenly "know" stuff.... - 15/09/2009 07:49:22 AM 1023 Views
Yes! *NM* - 15/09/2009 08:06:35 AM 458 Views
I try to avoid stupid people like that altogether - 15/09/2009 01:49:53 PM 836 Views
And move to a deserted island? - 15/09/2009 02:33:01 PM 1073 Views
Lol. I agree wholeheartedly. - 16/09/2009 02:17:51 AM 939 Views
My take on why Dan Brown is so disliked. - 15/09/2009 08:51:04 AM 999 Views
He 'true' book claims 5 million women were killed during the witch hunt - 15/09/2009 11:55:40 AM 884 Views
I would hardly say I hate him - 15/09/2009 02:33:13 PM 941 Views
I think it's more the totally inexplicable nature of his success - 15/09/2009 03:48:28 PM 1064 Views
Eragon and Twilight indicate all that is evil to me in the world - 15/09/2009 04:33:29 PM 1032 Views
I hardly think it's that inexplicable. - 15/09/2009 04:33:39 PM 894 Views
Honestly, his works play on a very basic fact of human psychology., - 16/09/2009 02:23:56 AM 989 Views
Misplaced superiority. - 15/09/2009 05:10:34 PM 974 Views
Well, regarding goodkind... - 15/09/2009 05:23:34 PM 936 Views
I couldn't say... - 15/09/2009 05:57:12 PM 1006 Views
It's pure literary snobbery - 15/09/2009 11:08:44 PM 932 Views
I agree with you 100%. - 16/09/2009 02:20:11 AM 861 Views
Very nice summary. - 16/09/2009 02:32:38 AM 1018 Views
That's more than a little unfair. - 16/09/2009 05:29:59 AM 872 Views
Dan Brown is a snob. - 16/09/2009 06:32:21 AM 1030 Views
because all of the cool kids hate him - 15/09/2009 11:17:29 PM 820 Views
He has an enormous schwanzstucker. *NM* - 16/09/2009 01:18:37 AM 635 Views
I figured that'd set most guys against him. *NM* - 16/09/2009 01:51:56 AM 491 Views
I don't get it either. - 16/09/2009 02:01:04 AM 867 Views
I think you'll appreciate this Tom - 16/09/2009 03:03:24 PM 1061 Views
Hmm. The sneerathon seems like a good idea. - 16/09/2009 03:52:15 PM 907 Views
That was lovely, thank you! - 17/09/2009 03:04:46 PM 890 Views
My pleasure - 17/09/2009 03:58:31 PM 944 Views
And yet there's still no "Why do so many people hate Faile?" post on the WoT board... *NM* - 18/09/2009 04:05:26 PM 624 Views
How do you know? *NM* - 18/09/2009 04:57:15 PM 498 Views
I pop in there on occasion. - 18/09/2009 05:09:59 PM 1187 Views
Oh, it's a job. - 18/09/2009 07:35:32 PM 1022 Views

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