Not that cyberpunk is completely outdated because it is archaic. It is because it's TOO possible. Creating absurdly futuristic technology off absurdly futuristic ideas just isn't as fun as creating absurdly futuristic tech out of outdated technology.
It's more fun to create than to speculate, is what (I think) I'm getting at. Honestly, I'm bad at building to a conclusion, I write and then try to summarize (it irritates my Lit professor to no end, which then irritates my grade and me).
But yea, steampunk is impossible, and more fun.
Or something like that.
I mean, Queen Victoria died in 1901, and King Edward VII in 1910, so anything from their lifetimes is already "dated" to more than a century ago. However, I would suggest that from a creative standpoint mainstream cyberpunk is at least as rich as its steampunk subtype (it really can't be less, by definition). As long as our neuroscience trails our cybernetics there will be a wide frontier; we don't even have an AI yet, nor is one expected soon, so human-computer integration doesn't seem "TOO possible" to me.
I appreciate speculations appeal, have felt it in mainstream fantasy, alternate histories (including some steampunk) and time travelers carrying knowledge of blackpowder, railroads etc. to earlier centuries (again, as in Connecticut Yankee). My problem with steampunk, in the cases where I have one (which is far from all of them) is that when it requires invalidating scientific law and grafting a postmodern zeitgeist onto an age that preceded it by half a century or more it wrecks the verisimilitude for me. It's like saying, "what if JFK had been a Martian?" Well, great except we know he wasn't because a) we have his corpse and b) there are no Martians and never were. I don't require my fiction be possible, but I do require it be plausible; where steampunk accomplishes that I can enjoy it as much as anything else.
This last paragraph here - completely missing everything I said (or at least intended). That's the point. No, it's clearly not possible to make a steam-powered mecha-rocket-horse. But it's FUN. And it's COOL. And that's why it wins. Then you look at cybernetics and AI, and, not only are all the cool cyberpunk topics pretty much used at this point, but they're not only plausible, but TOO plausible (yes, that was three sentences in one - now four - live with it). The science behind cyberpunk today is too much science, not enough shits and giggles.
I think you're badly underestimating the futures blank page. But, again, if it's just novel aesthetics (or as novel as the Gay Nineties, '30s noir and tired cybernetics can be ) all I can say is, "enjoy while it's cool". I want a little verisimilitude. Cool and fun are subjective, of course, but an absurdist marriage of things impossible to connect doesn't do it for me. If you read a story of Charlemagne as lightsaber wielding CIA agent would you say, "COOL!" or ""? I think steampunk has offered more, and appreciate when it has, but examples that merely look cool you can have for as long as they're still cool.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
The Sprawl Trilogy and Thoughts Thereof (or What Ever Happened to Cyberpunk?)
19/04/2011 10:50:26 PM
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Why I prefer cyberpunk in near future settings to (most) of the steampunk sub-genre.
19/04/2011 10:55:57 PM
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The difference is that steampunk, by and large, is very aware of its implausibility.
20/04/2011 01:32:57 AM
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You keep giving steampunk backhanded compliments like that and you'll start to confuse me.
20/04/2011 02:12:53 AM
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Being entertaining is not a backhanded compliment.
20/04/2011 02:34:15 AM
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It is when asserting something is better than a source containing more than entertainment.
20/04/2011 03:26:50 AM
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...didn't you wear a top hat to your wedding? *NM*
20/04/2011 04:04:42 AM
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IIRC I wore morning dress, the CURRENT standard here.
20/04/2011 05:08:26 AM
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Top hats in morning dress have gone the way of the ascot (you didn't wear an ascot, did you?).
20/04/2011 05:41:54 AM
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Well, my wife, mother-in-law and the woman at the haberdashery all disagree.
20/04/2011 07:05:09 AM
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the ability to wear a costume at a convention is hardly a ringing endorsement of a genre
22/04/2011 01:49:40 AM
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Your impression is close to being my comments verbatim.
22/04/2011 02:50:18 AM
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I tried to avoid that word, but I'll leave comparisons there and discuss pure cyberpunk henceforth.
22/04/2011 03:58:29 PM
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You keep coming back to this argument, and it keeps being a stupid one.
22/04/2011 10:33:14 PM
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I also can't help noting how this whole argument mirrors Count Zero.
24/04/2011 05:35:01 AM
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I think it's just a matter of two separate genres that share very similar names and perhaps origins.
20/04/2011 01:32:50 AM
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It's hard to argue that the genres are separate, but I did try to avoid suggesting a competition.
20/04/2011 03:08:49 AM
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Ok, what are you trying to argue for and/or explore in this thread? There are three options:
20/04/2011 04:22:52 AM
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It is under-appreciated critically, largely due to relative unpopularity.
20/04/2011 06:35:27 AM
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"Victorian Postmodernism" is viable because Postmodernism can appropriate other periods and styles.
21/04/2011 01:13:45 AM
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But can other periods and styles appropriate postmodernism?
21/04/2011 07:38:29 PM
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I don't think it's a two-way street in that manner. It's PoMo appropriating Victorian not vice versa
21/04/2011 11:40:29 PM
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It's only superficially postmodern though, else there'd be no wistfulness for Victorian styles.
22/04/2011 03:17:38 PM
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IMO, cyberpunk has become somewhat dated.
20/04/2011 04:46:55 AM
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Actually, I can live with that, though terms like "dated" invite trouble.
20/04/2011 07:01:50 AM
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Re: Actually, I can live with that, though terms like "dated" invite trouble.
22/04/2011 04:12:20 AM
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No, I took your point.
22/04/2011 03:43:18 PM
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so...is bladerunner cyberpunk
20/04/2011 09:48:15 PM
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It's usually seen as the archetypal cyberpunk film, yeah.
21/04/2011 10:50:44 AM
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so cyber is the time and punk is the attitude?
21/04/2011 12:57:01 PM
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I don't think the portmanteau is that precisely defined.
21/04/2011 08:31:34 PM
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I am amazed that no one has referenced this TVTropes page yet...
23/04/2011 07:45:14 PM
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Playing with fire; I should've known TVTropes would exhaustively cover the derivatives.
24/04/2011 03:11:56 AM
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It's always hard to pigeonhole things, especially as they become more specific
24/04/2011 06:27:28 PM
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The "dated" idea is interesting.
23/04/2011 08:08:26 PM
- 950 Views
PS the Takeshi Kovacs books are great, and you should all go read them *NM*
23/04/2011 08:09:54 PM
- 407 Views
I think it underestimates cyberpunk, and overestimates (present) reality (yes, spoilers now).
24/04/2011 02:24:01 AM
- 942 Views