Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
I live in an apartment, It was the first thing I though of. 
Yes, I am aware that Herbert was extremely interested in ecology and environmental issues. He spent alot of time learning what a desert is, what causes it, and how to alter it.
Perhaps I misunderstood your point, or framed my disagreement in the wrong way. I percieved you to be appraoching it in what I can best characterize... argh my brain isn't working well today and I know I am going to phrase it badly... change tracks..
The point I am and was trying to make is that Dune is not an environmentalist book as we define the term (conotatively, not denotatively) today, ie the Al Gore, tree-hugger, "we must all preserve the planet and minimize our carbon footprint" BS. The environmental issues of Dune is all about changing the natural state of the planet into something else we would prefer. The complete opposite of what "environmental" means in our current society.
Through his research Herbert was able to craft a rich detailed world for his story to occur in. The very richness of it allows us to see how it impacts and changes the paths of the characters. Other characters are forged in different environments. Once you get past the "environmental" surface though you discover that the environment is not really a message or theme of the book(s), it is the story the humans.
The "theme" is how the different environments forced them to become different from one another. How their forging makes what they do "right" in their eyes, and how all those verious perceptions conflict with one another without any black and white or moral absolutes. How in fact every person is really just a shade of moral grey. Though the novel is titled DUNE, it isn't about the planet, it is about the people. Thast is what makes the novel historically significant. That is what Herbert did that changed the Science Fiction genre.

Yes, I am aware that Herbert was extremely interested in ecology and environmental issues. He spent alot of time learning what a desert is, what causes it, and how to alter it.
Perhaps I misunderstood your point, or framed my disagreement in the wrong way. I percieved you to be appraoching it in what I can best characterize... argh my brain isn't working well today and I know I am going to phrase it badly... change tracks..
The point I am and was trying to make is that Dune is not an environmentalist book as we define the term (conotatively, not denotatively) today, ie the Al Gore, tree-hugger, "we must all preserve the planet and minimize our carbon footprint" BS. The environmental issues of Dune is all about changing the natural state of the planet into something else we would prefer. The complete opposite of what "environmental" means in our current society.
Through his research Herbert was able to craft a rich detailed world for his story to occur in. The very richness of it allows us to see how it impacts and changes the paths of the characters. Other characters are forged in different environments. Once you get past the "environmental" surface though you discover that the environment is not really a message or theme of the book(s), it is the story the humans.
The "theme" is how the different environments forced them to become different from one another. How their forging makes what they do "right" in their eyes, and how all those verious perceptions conflict with one another without any black and white or moral absolutes. How in fact every person is really just a shade of moral grey. Though the novel is titled DUNE, it isn't about the planet, it is about the people. Thast is what makes the novel historically significant. That is what Herbert did that changed the Science Fiction genre.
Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within)
16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM
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Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM
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Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM
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I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM
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Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM
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Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM
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Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
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That was most of my issue.
21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM
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Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM
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Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM*
21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM
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A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM
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Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM
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Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM
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Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM
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Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM
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Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM
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Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM
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Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM
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Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM
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Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM
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People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book
16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM
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Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM*
16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM
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I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune
16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM
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There are several points to the book/series
17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM
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Everyone get something different from a book
19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM
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I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series
20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM
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I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts
17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM
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Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps
18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM
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I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
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I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM*
22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM
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Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM
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Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM
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I didn't see that in Alia
21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
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There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers)
22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM
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OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first
22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM
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One of my favorite series!
21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
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I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM
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Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM
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Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM
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Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM
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