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Re: Some thoughts BlackAdder Send a noteboard - 26/04/2010 04:04:55 PM
Last night's post dinner conversation involved the new law, since we're in AZ. And at first I am against this to the core. Absolutely. There is no reason to require this of anyone and increases the chances of racial profiling. So these were my initial thoughts going in. There were three of us and the crone asked us for our thoughts. My other friend is in her mid-fifties and has family in Phoenix. Both stressed the violence on the border. The Crone pointed out that it is almost an undeclared war regarding the state of the atmosphere. My other friend pointed out that statistically the most violent of crimes in Phoenix and the southern part of AZ is by illegals and undocumented individuals.

Even if this is true, I don't see how this requirement would affect that. Besides, how does being an illegal affect the crime? Murder is still murder.

Then my mind goes to the thought that this now enables police to hold someone if they don't have papers and in fact actually be investigating more. There was a sense that it is known who some of the groups are, but there are no legal means to detain them or get them out of the country without initial incident. Also, this may be the prod for a critical examination and improvement of the immigration situation.

If they know who the people are, I'm sure they can do something more clever than passing a bill that targets everyone in the state (and anyone who travels to it).

But then I'm finding out all sorts of things about AZ law that I didn't know. That there is a bill in the process right now in the State legislature that would allow law enforcement to enter a residence without a warrant merely on suspicion.

Disclaimer: I have yet to read the actual bills for either issue. So please have a couple of grains of salt.


Amys

Hopefully something like that would get thrown out under the 4th Amendment, but there is a "who cares" attitude these days so...
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The Arizona immigration bill thingy BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 12:57:20 AM 2218 Views
what do you expect from one of the last states to accept MLK day? Aisha - 26/04/2010 01:19:03 AM 1298 Views
Yes, well, at least you are in the 27% of Americans that have a Passport. BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 01:48:44 AM 1105 Views
Such a wrongheaded law. LiterateDog - 26/04/2010 02:25:10 AM 1005 Views
A lot of stuff makes me go "whuh?" legally. Ghavrel - 26/04/2010 03:38:12 AM 885 Views
Sounds like apartheid in SA... Napoleon62 - 26/04/2010 02:36:52 AM 1054 Views
As bad as the law is, that's an ignorant statement. *NM* LiterateDog - 26/04/2010 02:38:16 AM 500 Views
Re: Sounds like apartheid in SA... BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 05:13:17 AM 1164 Views
It shows that Arizona is already lost Roland00 - 26/04/2010 03:09:24 AM 1049 Views
It will only take a few times getting their asses sued off for detaining U.S. citizens against... everynametaken - 26/04/2010 05:54:49 AM 1088 Views
Yeah, I can't wait 'til a Latino state representative is arrested for looking illegal. Ghavrel - 26/04/2010 07:26:13 AM 986 Views
or even better, a celebrity. I choose Antonia Banderas (when he has the funky beard hobo look) *NM* Aisha - 26/04/2010 12:32:18 PM 550 Views
Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border Dark Knight - 26/04/2010 06:19:24 AM 991 Views
Oh please! The immigration and drug problems don't justify bad legislation. everynametaken - 26/04/2010 07:02:54 AM 1012 Views
I do. Brian - 26/04/2010 07:11:10 AM 1179 Views
Re: I do. everynametaken - 26/04/2010 07:45:21 AM 1012 Views
Yeah, I saw an interview with a former U.S. Drug Czar Brian - 26/04/2010 06:35:10 PM 985 Views
Okay, I grew up in Arizona. LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 12:41:21 PM 1199 Views
Re: Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 03:58:37 PM 1075 Views
looks like somebody doesn't quite get the point moondog - 29/04/2010 06:18:58 AM 1656 Views
Some thoughts Amys - 26/04/2010 06:42:02 AM 1115 Views
I wouldn't worry to much laws like that random thoughts - 26/04/2010 03:03:16 PM 986 Views
patriot act gives that to any federal law enforcement officer moondog - 29/04/2010 06:13:38 AM 1087 Views
Re: Some thoughts BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 04:04:55 PM 980 Views
It's not just outrageous; it's plain stupid. The latter is almost as offensive as the former. Ghavrel - 26/04/2010 07:30:30 AM 1012 Views
Sounds more like a bill to convince people they are doing something than to do something snoopcester - 26/04/2010 12:43:19 PM 984 Views
What I find interesting about all this... Legolas - 26/04/2010 01:06:08 PM 1092 Views
well you see, that IS part of the problem LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 01:13:19 PM 1079 Views
It is interesting to see how it contrasts with your take on it, being from a country with them snoopcester - 26/04/2010 02:11:18 PM 1051 Views
Re: What I find interesting about all this... BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 03:52:09 PM 1045 Views
Perhaps I'm wrong, but... Elaine - 26/04/2010 01:49:13 PM 975 Views
I don't know about the green cards LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 03:05:49 PM 1004 Views
That last point doesn't really make any sense. Legolas - 26/04/2010 03:20:19 PM 1001 Views
my point was that the punishments for the similar crimes are so different. LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 04:23:08 PM 946 Views
Hey, I think it's an appalling law. Elaine - 27/04/2010 02:24:30 PM 1090 Views
Re: Perhaps I'm wrong, but... BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 03:41:47 PM 918 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass random thoughts - 26/04/2010 02:59:11 PM 1060 Views
The law will most likely not be overturned. LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 03:13:24 PM 988 Views
I meant by the courts random thoughts - 27/04/2010 03:49:11 PM 891 Views
ah well. that'd be nice, then. *NM* LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 05:14:31 PM 460 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM* Aisha - 26/04/2010 03:20:45 PM 515 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM* beckstcw - 26/04/2010 06:53:32 PM 442 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM* everynametaken - 26/04/2010 08:33:04 PM 478 Views
The federal government will be collective ass but it may help to get the law off their overturned *NM* beckstcw - 27/04/2010 05:33:42 AM 469 Views
Their collective ass will be overturned but it may help to get the law off the federal government *NM* BlackAdder - 27/04/2010 09:18:02 AM 445 Views
It's interesting how this sort of mirrors the Belgian issues. Legolas - 26/04/2010 03:34:59 PM 979 Views
the "overrunning" of culture and language is exaggerated, imo LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 04:34:56 PM 1001 Views
I think the primary problem - in both cases - is language, yes. Legolas - 26/04/2010 04:54:55 PM 1021 Views
*shrug* I don't know. I just think that people are way too uptight about the issue LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 05:02:30 PM 947 Views
I agree with you Brian - 26/04/2010 05:26:47 PM 969 Views
that is also true LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 05:44:40 PM 918 Views
There is a difference between assimilating and being assimilated random thoughts - 27/04/2010 04:09:19 PM 988 Views
the differences really are not that minor random thoughts - 28/04/2010 06:49:33 PM 1030 Views
hmm, see LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 07:10:42 PM 903 Views
I am from San Antonio I have always been able to buy burritos from my neighbors random thoughts - 28/04/2010 08:28:45 PM 922 Views
mmmm Tamale. LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 08:53:13 PM 959 Views
When I say relatively minor, it's because I'm thinking of those *other* assimilation problems here Legolas - 28/04/2010 10:30:04 PM 1212 Views
It should rattle anyone who lives in a democracy and who likes their way of life random thoughts - 28/04/2010 11:15:18 PM 1070 Views
a minor point.... moondog - 29/04/2010 06:30:22 AM 1014 Views
More power to the government! and We took that land fair and square! *NM* heartbreak - 26/04/2010 04:43:15 PM 417 Views
I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute Isaac - 26/04/2010 09:05:21 PM 1214 Views
Re: I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 11:48:14 PM 1343 Views
you are correct moondog - 29/04/2010 06:39:29 AM 1362 Views
Uhm, how is that "worst" case scenario? LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 01:28:28 PM 977 Views
Worst reasonable case scenario Isaac - 28/04/2010 06:48:29 PM 942 Views
Will the will of the people of Arizona be respected? dart_board - 27/04/2010 12:12:46 AM 1105 Views
That's funny... LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 01:57:14 AM 1305 Views
echo chamber much? random thoughts - 27/04/2010 04:14:53 PM 1061 Views
there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights. LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 05:19:29 PM 915 Views
Re: there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights. dart_board - 28/04/2010 12:40:42 PM 973 Views
Those incidents are horrible LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 01:07:39 PM 954 Views
Re: That's funny... dart_board - 28/04/2010 12:30:41 PM 997 Views
And this law will not give them what they want LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 01:12:50 PM 1002 Views
Also, the potential economic consequences of the law could be severe for Arizona. Libby - 27/04/2010 01:03:54 AM 1029 Views
now that's just crazy talk. LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 01:58:42 AM 940 Views
activist group liberal group claims it will cost money, what a shocker *NM* random thoughts - 27/04/2010 04:23:11 PM 424 Views
It will cost money Libby - 27/04/2010 09:16:31 PM 988 Views
but all of that ignores the long term savings random thoughts - 28/04/2010 03:24:50 PM 927 Views
it's less a matter of american tourism LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 04:06:50 PM 981 Views
if they law is enforced it will decrease the number of illegals who go to Arizona random thoughts - 28/04/2010 06:35:26 PM 1040 Views
I will admit LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 07:01:55 PM 960 Views
there have always been bad cops and there always will be random thoughts - 28/04/2010 08:53:50 PM 918 Views
I don't see any real long term savings coming from this. Libby - 28/04/2010 10:17:26 PM 1041 Views
70% of the people in Arizona support the new law and 30% of the state is Hispanic random thoughts - 28/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 1182 Views
real science? LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 11:06:13 PM 967 Views
I linked to it further up the thread and you responded random thoughts - 28/04/2010 11:19:51 PM 951 Views
ah, I think I missed it for some reason LadyLorraine - 29/04/2010 12:18:13 AM 1015 Views
who has time to read all of this crap *NM* random thoughts - 29/04/2010 04:26:11 AM 408 Views
I'm familiar with the Rasmussen poll Libby - 28/04/2010 11:31:30 PM 1275 Views
Here's Judge Napolitano's response to this AgentOrange - 27/04/2010 02:19:49 PM 967 Views
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