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Since were talking about the law, not your opinion of right an wrong, it's sort of a default Isaac Send a noteboard - 09/09/2009 05:01:08 PM
I don't think you're going to find a lot of people who think these parents were doing the right and proper thing, so debating its ethics are about as redundant and unnecessary as debating the merits of anti-semiticism, we're talking about rights.

As you pointed out, Schools make their own rules about what you can and can't do. And, they're completely within their rights to also impose consequences for breaking those rules.and, just like a workplace, schools will have rules about what you can and cannot wear, say, or do. That's just how it is.


Actually that is not how it is. Public schools do not get to make up rules about what people can or can't wear. The supreme court has ruled on this repeatedly. Neither public instituions or even private franchise have the right to ban things without question, many a lawsuit - quite a few of which have been successful - have challenged these sorts of things. Schools can limit certain rights in the name of security, disruption, etc. This isn't carte blanche, there are some pretty solid guidelines about it. It as to be reasonable and even-handed, or close to it, or the ACLU wil show up.
I agree with you this amendment argument is ridiculous. The children are being sent home for refusing to follow a school rule. In my high school, we had a rule that you weren't allowed to eat food on the second floor. If you refused to follow that rule, you could be suspended. It's really no different.


Bingo, it's a rule, and so long as it can't be shown to be applied in a discrimnatory fashion - banning an AC/DC concert shirt but letting someone else wear a 'Mozart Rules' short - as well as having at least some basis in reality, then by and large the school can do it. Banning eating on the second floor would be safe because they could easily rationalize it as a health issue, for instance. They be in serious trouble if the rule was instead "boys can eat in class, girls can't" or banning yawning.

My response to the article was somewhat off-the-cuff and not meant to be taken seriously. It was more of a response to the bit where the kids mentioned that they would be fine with a schoolmate coming to school with a shirt saying the same thing about Christianity. if they feel that way, they should have no issue wearing such a shirt in support of their peer's rights. Sort've a "put up or shut up."


Well, I appreciate how off-the-cuff remarks often get taken too seriously on account of a lack of verbal and tonal context. But even here, you're making a bad judgement. I'm a republican, I have no prob with wearing a "Canidate X for year Y" shirt, though I avoid doing so in most places because it is, well, disruptive. I also have no problem with someone wearing a shirt for the opposite candidate, but I'd be screaming holy heck if someone tried to get me to wear the other's guys shirt. It's the same as raising the flag on your lawn, perfectly legitimate expression of freedom, and making someone raise the flag on their lawn, which is basically the exact opposite of freedom and much worse then telling someone they can't raise a certain flag on their lawn. On the grand scale of oppression telling people 'no' on certain expressions is not as bad as making someone express themselves agianst their will and creed, and both are pretty f'd up.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Islam is of the Devil - 06/09/2009 03:30:51 AM 1698 Views
I swear, the levels of crazy are just increasing these days. - 06/09/2009 06:04:19 AM 969 Views
People are stupid. - 06/09/2009 06:25:42 AM 1121 Views
This statement got me: - 06/09/2009 06:30:16 AM 1358 Views
Re: This statement got me: - 06/09/2009 07:20:17 AM 957 Views
What you say about those places may be true - 06/09/2009 02:16:30 PM 963 Views
Regardless... - 07/09/2009 04:34:48 AM 912 Views
Re: Regardless... - 07/09/2009 06:10:18 AM 1022 Views
I'm not advocating the killing of Muslims. - 08/09/2009 07:11:13 PM 1039 Views
Re: I'm not advocating the killing of Muslims. - 08/09/2009 10:15:55 PM 1017 Views
Okay... - 09/09/2009 04:04:29 PM 940 Views
You are free to wear offensive clothing - 08/09/2009 08:13:18 PM 1001 Views
There is a difference between hatred and truth. - 09/09/2009 04:04:02 PM 933 Views
You do know christans have done that as well don't you? - 09/09/2009 06:04:28 PM 1003 Views
The difference is... - 09/09/2009 06:16:13 PM 908 Views
really have you actaully read the Qur'an - 09/09/2009 06:33:38 PM 982 Views
there are some unsavory passages, and he knows it. - 09/09/2009 06:46:59 PM 974 Views
Acrually No I don't. - 09/09/2009 07:52:19 PM 850 Views
Someone should have told Jesus the OT was void - 09/09/2009 10:31:39 PM 983 Views
Jesus was the one who voided it. - 10/09/2009 12:25:18 AM 990 Views
so he was lying when he said he didn't? - 10/09/2009 03:27:14 AM 1051 Views
Christ never said that. - 10/09/2009 02:14:53 PM 954 Views
Logicaly, this is a stupid post. - 06/09/2009 03:58:43 PM 1000 Views
+1 *NM* - 06/09/2009 08:56:02 PM 453 Views
+2 *NM* - 06/09/2009 10:04:34 PM 425 Views
+3 *NM* - 06/09/2009 10:36:48 PM 438 Views
As an Englishman, why are you even posting in this thread then? *NM* - 07/09/2009 02:49:22 AM 467 Views
Because I can. - 07/09/2009 10:15:57 AM 1022 Views
So can he. - 07/09/2009 07:54:56 PM 922 Views
Yes - 08/09/2009 05:59:24 AM 974 Views
It means a lot in context to the situation - 08/09/2009 07:14:50 PM 1048 Views
No, it does not. - 08/09/2009 07:20:49 PM 1012 Views
So now you can tell me what I can and can't do with my children? - 08/09/2009 11:31:16 PM 1022 Views
I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 08/09/2009 11:59:21 PM 971 Views
Re: I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 09/09/2009 04:10:19 PM 1038 Views
Re: I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 09/09/2009 04:27:32 PM 1087 Views
Define "disruptive". - 09/09/2009 06:19:36 PM 968 Views
No. *NM* - 09/09/2009 06:26:43 PM 472 Views
Well said *NM* - 09/09/2009 06:55:22 PM 443 Views
Ooh, look, I'm being baited. - 09/09/2009 07:59:28 PM 932 Views
Then your argument has no merit. *NM* - 09/09/2009 07:52:47 PM 438 Views
you are making no sense - 08/09/2009 11:35:12 AM 1015 Views
Quite a bit. - 07/09/2009 04:31:59 AM 980 Views
Luke 6:31 *NM* - 07/09/2009 08:41:54 PM 510 Views
That applies to them as well. *NM* - 08/09/2009 07:08:55 PM 352 Views
The thing I think you are missing... - 06/09/2009 07:18:45 PM 1060 Views
Wait, what? - 06/09/2009 08:29:14 PM 1033 Views
I... kinda have to agree with Ghav, there. - 06/09/2009 10:39:28 PM 1014 Views
Yeah, what you said! - 06/09/2009 11:51:19 PM 1092 Views
don't make me get all vulcan on you. *NM* - 07/09/2009 06:13:18 AM 427 Views
Wrong. - 07/09/2009 04:36:49 AM 1006 Views
That is why America is different than those countries. Duh. *NM* - 06/09/2009 07:58:53 PM 636 Views
Because in America - 07/09/2009 04:35:24 AM 1079 Views
Re: Because in America - 07/09/2009 06:16:05 AM 926 Views
And... - 08/09/2009 07:15:49 PM 931 Views
Jesus, you are a real piece of work. Moron. *NM* - 07/09/2009 11:52:02 PM 333 Views
I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 01:40:42 AM 997 Views
Go, Tash, go! - 08/09/2009 05:52:01 AM 958 Views
Re: I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 07:18:00 PM 958 Views
"Their government" is the American government. *NM* - 08/09/2009 07:36:27 PM 405 Views
That is a concept many people can't seem to grasp *NM* - 08/09/2009 08:14:50 PM 416 Views
The elf has a point. *NM* - 08/09/2009 10:18:26 PM 475 Views
And yet I don't see CAIR.. - 09/09/2009 04:07:05 PM 911 Views
Why on earth should it? - 09/09/2009 05:14:30 PM 967 Views
Because... - 09/09/2009 06:25:41 PM 1024 Views
Re: Because... - 09/09/2009 07:06:24 PM 1209 Views
Really? - 08/09/2009 08:02:42 PM 901 Views
Re: Really? - 09/09/2009 12:11:36 AM 961 Views
Well it's not about whether it scans right to you. - 09/09/2009 04:06:06 PM 862 Views
Oh, I was just clarifying. - 09/09/2009 06:05:49 PM 920 Views
Re: I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 11:49:48 PM 1027 Views
Failed edit. *NM* - 08/09/2009 11:50:50 PM 447 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 09/09/2009 12:12:52 AM 450 Views
I'm appalled that this was even worthy of note - 06/09/2009 06:46:58 AM 1005 Views
Re: I'm appalled that this was even worthy of note - 06/09/2009 07:22:59 AM 1143 Views
It didn't infringe on the First Amendment rights of others. - 06/09/2009 07:28:35 AM 975 Views
Er? You misunderstand the law quite a lot there - 06/09/2009 11:06:04 AM 980 Views
I believe the rest of the Church has done a horrible job explaining... - 06/09/2009 08:02:25 PM 972 Views
When will people learn tolerance/=support...? - 06/09/2009 12:30:23 PM 1045 Views
Well said *NM* - 06/09/2009 12:50:11 PM 449 Views
The sad thing is ou know it is the parents driving it all - 06/09/2009 02:37:08 PM 1100 Views
The parents are disgusting idiots - 06/09/2009 03:57:17 PM 993 Views
Fundamentalist nutjobs. Sheesh! *NM* - 06/09/2009 07:57:09 PM 525 Views
The appropriate punishment... - 07/09/2009 06:03:25 AM 997 Views
Punishment for what? - 07/09/2009 09:51:57 AM 1012 Views
When did I say anything about a law? - 07/09/2009 10:48:09 AM 976 Views
Since were talking about the law, not your opinion of right an wrong, it's sort of a default - 09/09/2009 05:01:08 PM 950 Views
Eh... I wish you were right, but I don't think you are. - 10/09/2009 03:50:18 AM 1051 Views
Morse isn't a bad example - 10/09/2009 11:23:32 AM 1029 Views
That's the key point so many forget: - 07/09/2009 11:42:12 PM 851 Views
It's not that they forget, they never 'get' to begin with - 09/09/2009 07:18:09 PM 1027 Views
No, that's pretty much it. - 10/09/2009 03:42:25 AM 1080 Views
You're right. - 14/09/2009 11:11:38 AM 1159 Views
If I understand you - 14/09/2009 03:05:39 PM 997 Views
Yes, that was it - 14/09/2009 04:17:45 PM 1157 Views

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