but, as Tom has pointed out, it's a socioeconomic and legal benefit being denied one group but given to another for no sound legal reasoning. Remember, you don't have a right to sit where you want on a bus, either, but that doesn't mean it's okay to tell someone where to sit based on factors such as race and gender. From a legal standpoint, how is sexual preference any different?
As so many have stated over the last few years (and even in this thread), that this is akin to the civil rights movement. That this entire debate is about giving equal rights to equal people. As I said...marriage isn't a right. Socioeconomic and legal benefits are not rights. What about me? I am single, but my brother lives with me? Why can't we have those same tax breaks?
You mentioned race and gender as being factors upon which people are differentiated. Those are factors which they can neither control nor have a choice over. Sexual preference, much as you stated, is just that....a preference. There is no proven genetic component which triggers homosexual behavior. On the contrary, it seems to be much more of a nurture component which changes the debate completely.
Ultimately, I think that the debate actually centers around the thought that society, by and large, should consider a homosexual partnership as valid and normal. There is a majority of people in California who disagree (for whatever reason). This isn't about rights, as none of us has a right to get married. This isn't so much about money or benefits, as none of us has a right to those either. There are all sorts of provisions in government which state "if you are in this situation, you get this benefit". If you don't qualify, you don't get it. Instead, this entire debate (in my thinking anyway) is about one aspect of American culture saying "this lifestyle is as normal as yours and you will accept that."
There are many who would think "No it isn't, and no I won't." Who are you, or more specifically a judge, to force someone to accept their opinion as fact? Again...this isn't about race or gender...its about an individual's conscious decision on who to love.
~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
Judge rules California's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional
- 04/08/2010 10:40:50 PM
1571 Views
Good news, but as the article says, it'll go all the way to the SC.
- 04/08/2010 10:55:58 PM
880 Views
So then is that how we do it?
- 04/08/2010 11:01:19 PM
1018 Views
Of course.
- 04/08/2010 11:04:59 PM
915 Views
His point was
- 04/08/2010 11:40:14 PM
1057 Views
Yeah but: What Ghavrel said below *NM*
- 05/08/2010 08:01:02 AM
510 Views
And again...
- 05/08/2010 06:08:56 PM
783 Views
To quote my property professor: "Can I make you think like a Californian?"
- 05/08/2010 06:39:48 PM
830 Views
I'm not the one who came up with the referendum system, you do realize.
- 04/08/2010 11:11:13 PM
904 Views
- 04/08/2010 11:11:13 PM
904 Views
The referendum system, in my opinion, has been a failure, especially in CA.
- 04/08/2010 11:46:21 PM
994 Views
democracy has been a failure in CA.
- 05/08/2010 02:42:21 PM
771 Views
No. It just shows the problems of a crazy electorate.
- 05/08/2010 03:29:21 PM
913 Views
we vote fro way to much crap in general
- 05/08/2010 02:41:19 PM
866 Views
Yes, you still have to abide by the Constitution, even if a lot of people don't like it. *NM*
- 05/08/2010 12:07:44 AM
465 Views
Amend the Constitution to alter the Fourteenth Amendment if you don't like it. *NM*
- 05/08/2010 01:09:51 AM
538 Views
just a devil's advocate position here, but....
- 05/08/2010 04:23:43 AM
943 Views
Marriage is either an economic status regulated by law or a religious institution.
- 05/08/2010 05:13:17 AM
953 Views
There are certain things that should not be decided by a vote...
- 05/08/2010 02:02:45 AM
933 Views
I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular.
- 05/08/2010 02:17:24 AM
946 Views
Re: I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular.
- 05/08/2010 10:46:54 AM
933 Views
I understand it.
- 05/08/2010 03:06:40 PM
942 Views
I know you don't support proposition 8
- 05/08/2010 03:29:34 PM
938 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:34:01 PM
950 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:29:34 PM
938 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:34:01 PM
950 Views
But that is just simplistic and silly to complain about when it is a long standing possibility
- 05/08/2010 03:46:59 PM
855 Views
Oh, ees it?
- 05/08/2010 04:07:39 PM
965 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:07:39 PM
965 Views
Well they knew the rules before they started the whole thing
- 05/08/2010 04:12:33 PM
853 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:12:33 PM
853 Views
Why would you complain if you won?
- 05/08/2010 04:15:20 PM
914 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:15:20 PM
914 Views
You could recognise that you won by the system working in a way you don't like?
- 05/08/2010 04:23:58 PM
784 Views
I'm sure that happens, in general.
- 06/08/2010 02:43:18 PM
836 Views
It seems to happen a lot nowadays
- 06/08/2010 03:06:33 PM
811 Views
It's so weird that you feel differently - there is only room for one opinion here!
- 06/08/2010 03:41:52 PM
729 Views
- 06/08/2010 03:41:52 PM
729 Views
instead it should be decided by judges who answer to no one? *NM*
- 05/08/2010 07:12:59 AM
466 Views
The same judges who upheld our private right to bear arms.
- 05/08/2010 02:09:07 PM
937 Views
not when judges stop using the Constitution
- 05/08/2010 02:30:51 PM
915 Views
Sexual preference is not the right being protected.
- 05/08/2010 03:22:04 PM
983 Views
I know that the 14th amendment is routinely used in ways it was never intended.
- 05/08/2010 05:25:07 PM
889 Views
I realize that, but it is ultimately a good thing.
- 05/08/2010 05:31:19 PM
958 Views
let's take away the citizenship of all black people if that's the way you think
- 05/08/2010 09:06:23 PM
825 Views
Come now lets not be stupid
- 06/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
785 Views
sorry but your statement was completely ignorant.
- 06/08/2010 07:27:09 PM
898 Views
I will talk as soon as you stop spouting stupid rhetoric and say something relevant
- 06/08/2010 07:54:09 PM
867 Views
Let's just be clear about which amendment is which.
- 05/08/2010 11:50:57 PM
828 Views
but that still ignores intent and expands the law in ways not intnented when it created
- 06/08/2010 04:53:43 AM
834 Views
Yes, no, no, and no.
- 06/08/2010 05:29:09 AM
896 Views
there are serious flaws in your thinking here
- 06/08/2010 06:18:13 PM
965 Views
Your assertions continue to lack support.
- 06/08/2010 07:23:17 PM
996 Views
not all you just refuse to see things you disagree with
- 06/08/2010 08:36:32 PM
947 Views
...said the pot to the kettle
- 06/08/2010 09:17:28 PM
1032 Views
yes but a shiny stainless steel pot
- 09/08/2010 11:21:33 PM
1092 Views
You continue to be wrong about history and the role of courts.
- 10/08/2010 01:05:39 AM
1431 Views
If he's wrong, a lot of law scholars and Supreme Court Justices are wrong.
- 10/08/2010 01:44:05 AM
864 Views
Brown vs. Board of Education, 'nuff said. *NM*
- 10/08/2010 04:32:37 AM
458 Views
Actually, that only proves his point, if I understand correctly. *NM*
- 10/08/2010 11:11:19 AM
485 Views
part oif the problem appears to be you completely missing the point
- 10/08/2010 01:23:19 PM
1079 Views
There's a simple way to determine the degree to which that opinion is objective or subjective...
- 06/08/2010 09:32:21 PM
839 Views
Since when is marriage a right? *NM*
- 05/08/2010 04:11:16 PM
443 Views
it may not be a "right"...
- 05/08/2010 04:22:44 PM
821 Views
This is where the debate comes into play....
- 05/08/2010 05:04:08 PM
836 Views
It's a benefit that is being extended selectively to one set of the populace.
- 05/08/2010 04:52:52 PM
902 Views
Hey, I'm single....
- 05/08/2010 05:05:41 PM
832 Views
That's a specious argument and you know it.
- 05/08/2010 05:13:17 PM
884 Views
A homosexual has every opportunity as well.....
- 05/08/2010 05:23:56 PM
830 Views
Oh quit the bullshit already.
- 05/08/2010 05:29:15 PM
1080 Views
Sorry, but what a nonsense.
- 05/08/2010 09:27:17 PM
819 Views
hey that's it, jens! you solved the WHOLE PROBLEM!!!
- 05/08/2010 11:24:29 PM
944 Views
ON TO WORLD HUNGER!
- 06/08/2010 07:59:51 AM
852 Views
LET THEM HAVE CAEK. *NM*
- 06/08/2010 02:29:56 PM
436 Views
Are you sure it's wise to feed people on a lie? *NM*
- 06/08/2010 02:34:26 PM
520 Views
People are fed lies all the time
- 06/08/2010 09:30:37 PM
829 Views
Quite so, but I don't think it's commonly a mainstay of their diet *NM*
- 06/08/2010 09:50:33 PM
466 Views
It is the only thing which is abundant enough for everyone to have some...
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 10:01:44 PM
719 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 10:01:44 PM
719 Views
I invite you to read the judge's conclusions, linked again inside.
- 05/08/2010 11:43:44 PM
942 Views
Since 1948
- 06/08/2010 04:01:02 AM
1066 Views
gah. can. only. see. typo. *NM*
- 06/08/2010 03:43:21 PM
426 Views
I don't see any typo...
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 04:07:18 PM
486 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 04:07:18 PM
486 Views
I agree
- 05/08/2010 07:22:17 AM
891 Views
And Civil Rights lost the Democrats the South.
- 05/08/2010 03:44:56 PM
898 Views
but it was done by congress passing laws and the president signing those laws
- 05/08/2010 04:20:19 PM
840 Views
I was under the impression that the supreme court had a role in it
- 05/08/2010 04:31:51 PM
840 Views
but the court was not over turning the laws passed by congress
- 05/08/2010 05:11:06 PM
906 Views
No, like in this case, isn't it?
- 05/08/2010 05:24:19 PM
811 Views
I would say that is another case of judicial activism and shows the danger of the practice
- 05/08/2010 05:43:02 PM
799 Views
Hard to believe it's the same governor who said "Gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." *NM*
- 04/08/2010 11:05:45 PM
530 Views
Link to the full court order inside:
- 04/08/2010 11:43:29 PM
1044 Views
The judge quoting Scalia in favour of gay marriage is fairly amusing.
- 04/08/2010 11:50:47 PM
885 Views
What page was that on?
- 05/08/2010 11:25:49 AM
799 Views
Nah, it was way above page 109, in the findings of fact somewhere.
- 05/08/2010 12:37:48 PM
914 Views
Oh, that is brilliant.
- 05/08/2010 01:12:21 PM
829 Views
Pretty much.
- 05/08/2010 01:44:22 PM
963 Views
I've always wondered what basis there is for banning necrophilia if "it's disgusting" is invalid.
- 05/08/2010 01:51:19 PM
904 Views
because you cannot give consent when you are dead?
- 05/08/2010 03:04:46 PM
906 Views
what if you give consent while you are still alive?
- 05/08/2010 03:21:59 PM
973 Views
Is it then illegal?
- 05/08/2010 03:23:46 PM
897 Views
given I imagine the pro-necrophilia lobby isn't strong in numbers or influence
- 05/08/2010 03:33:11 PM
966 Views
Re: given I imagine the pro-necrophilia lobby isn't strong in numbers or influence
- 05/08/2010 03:34:57 PM
1015 Views
I would think it would be illegal even then
- 05/08/2010 03:34:31 PM
905 Views
Wikipedia to the rescue!
- 05/08/2010 04:20:15 PM
1077 Views
you would hope the other states would cover it under improper treatmentof human remains
- 05/08/2010 07:38:59 PM
863 Views
A dead body is just an object, not a person with rights.
- 05/08/2010 03:27:08 PM
896 Views
Yes, but
- 06/08/2010 08:42:05 AM
851 Views
Absolutely not.
- 06/08/2010 03:21:14 PM
908 Views
not to mention necrophilia has a large potential to be hazardous to health.
- 06/08/2010 09:42:43 PM
995 Views
Irrelevant decision.....this was heading to SCOTUS from day 1 *NM*
- 05/08/2010 12:53:26 AM
486 Views


