Active Users:676 Time:31/05/2026 11:00:29 AM
not all you just refuse to see things you disagree with random thoughts Send a noteboard - 06/08/2010 08:36:32 PM
would it be legal for airlines to charge more for blacks?

It would not, but the illegality of this would not be based on the 14th Amendment, which is my point.


That is because it would deal with the direct issue 14th was created to deal with, which is my point. If the 14 can be applied to being over wieght then it would offer the same protection to overwieght people as it does to minorites. This is prety simple concept here and I am not sure why you are having difiiculty with it. You claimed the 14th wouldn't apply to airlines now you agree that is it does but claim I am not supporting my argument. I think you may not understand the concept of supporting an argument.

If the 14 was passed a few decades ago it might be valid to use it to strike down old laws but since it is about 150 years old I don't believe it is valid for judges now redefine it to mean what they would like it to mean. As you mentioned there is an amendment process and that processes isn't for judges to simply decide old amendments mean new things. The role of the courts is not to change society but to ensure that changes are enacted in accordance with the constitution. Anytime the courts are initiating the change their actions are suspect.

Everyone reinterprets the Constitution all the time. Should the 2nd Amendment be used to justify allowing personal ownership of assault weapons, despite the fact that nothing remotely as powerful existed when it was created? Should the 1st Amendment be used to justify removing limits on corporate contributions to political campaigns by claiming that money is speech? Should "free exercise of religion" include freedom from religion as well?


The second amendment was written to allow civilians to arm themselves the second was written to allow for the free expression of political point of views. In neither case has the courts changed the intent of the law they have merely clarified it to come in line with changing technology. There were no assault weapons when those amendments were passed and giant corporations did not get involved in directly in campaigns but there were homosexuals. If the intent had been to provide protection to homosexuals as a protected group they would been a record of that being discussed at the time.

The Constitution is a living document. I name interpretations with which I disagree and with which I agree, but the fact remains that this judge is far from an anomalous case in making one. In this specific case, both Due Process and Equal Protection are phrased very broadly and it's not at all a stretch to apply them.


It is because the 14th is written so broadly that we have to cautious of how much it is allowed to expand. It is written so broadly that the courts can use it to justify virtually any actions.

You are the one who is showing a serious lack of understanding of how checks and balance works. Judges should not be create laws or change existing laws to meet their personal ideal of justice and that is what is happening here. A judge wants to change a law to make something legal that has been illegal for virtually the entire history of the nation. This is a major social change for our nation. It is a change I support but it is still and major social change and the check and balance system is designed so that no single branch of government acting alone can enact major social changes but instead require all branches of government acting together. In other words major social should require consent from the people not the will of and rightly or wrongly that will does not exist right now. Supporters of gay rights like to sight the civil rights movement as an example I think that is often valid but you have to look at the entire movement. Civil rights did not move forward until we had a president a legislature and courts that was willing to move it forward. That happened because enough people were willing to vote for pro-civil right candidates. If the courts had tried to act alone they would have failed.

To get true change it requires not only all the branches of federal government to act together but for the states to participate as well. The federal government began the push for civil rights but it was not until the states became involved that we start seeing real change and the few hold states were forced to change eventually as well. Not all the states went along of course but the Jim Crow states were in the minority. How many states have passed legislation allowing same sex marriage?

Currently, gay marriage is legal in 5 states (Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Vermont) plus Washington, D.C. It has briefly been legal in Maine and California. New York, Rhode Island, and Maryland recognize same-sex marriages from other states but don't perform them.


And in how many of those states was it done through legislative action?

The United States is supposed to have a principled democracy (democratic republic) guided by the Constitution. This means that our system should not be accurately described as "majority rule," but as "majority rule with minority rights." The rights and freedoms of minorities must be protected for our system of government to remain legitimate, and the judicial branch acts, as it is intended, as a check on the activities of the other branches when they threaten that legitimacy by acting unconstitutionally.


And the other branches have to keep the judicial branch in check and not allow them to create which ever laws they see fit and can justify under broadly worded passages in the constitutions by applying them in ways that are clearly outside of the intent it was created for. Sadly we don’t have much a check in that regard outside of simply doing what Jackson did.

Unquantifiable musing about "big social changes" needing to be done "gradually" just doesn't make an impact when placed against the fundamental foundation of our nation's government.


Sorry but that is horse shit. The country is over two hundred years old and suddenly gay marriage is a fundamental part over nation’s government. I didn’t say large change had to be done gradually I said it has to be done with some level of consensus and the more the consensus the faster and more affective the change. That sort of change often takes time but that is incidental not required.

Also, your continued assertion that the judge is trying to "change the law" to meet his "personal idea of justice" shows nothing more than that you still haven't read the ruling. If you can point to specific passages indicating the judge is relying on his personal opinion above an objective interpretation of the facts and evidence, do so. Otherwise, quit it with the unsubstantiated claims.


Sorry but no I don’t have to dissect a legal opinion that is pages and pages long to believe that a gay judge from San Francisco who decides that the 14th amendment makes it unconstitutional for states to ban gay marriage is acting on his personal belief and not on the law. I am sure he is a brilliant man and his findings are well documented and supported but that does not change the fact that he is using his place on the bench to bring social change. If I wan't to make an indepth argument about this ruling it would make sense for me to dig deep into his ruling but I am making a briader argument then that.
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Judge rules California's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional - 04/08/2010 10:40:50 PM 1523 Views
Thank God. *NM* - 04/08/2010 10:52:30 PM 436 Views
Amen. *NM* - 05/08/2010 02:09:24 AM 497 Views
Good news, but as the article says, it'll go all the way to the SC. - 04/08/2010 10:55:58 PM 839 Views
So then is that how we do it? - 04/08/2010 11:01:19 PM 977 Views
Of course. - 04/08/2010 11:04:59 PM 868 Views
His point was - 04/08/2010 11:40:14 PM 1019 Views
Yeah but: What Ghavrel said below *NM* - 05/08/2010 08:01:02 AM 490 Views
And again... - 05/08/2010 06:08:56 PM 738 Views
well that is sort of the idea of how democracy works - 04/08/2010 11:06:57 PM 857 Views
I'm not the one who came up with the referendum system, you do realize. - 04/08/2010 11:11:13 PM 859 Views
The referendum system, in my opinion, has been a failure, especially in CA. - 04/08/2010 11:46:21 PM 949 Views
democracy has been a failure in CA. - 05/08/2010 02:42:21 PM 723 Views
No. It just shows the problems of a crazy electorate. - 05/08/2010 03:29:21 PM 870 Views
I think you made my point *NM* - 05/08/2010 03:35:00 PM 457 Views
About Californians being crazy, yes. *NM* - 05/08/2010 04:53:32 PM 426 Views
we vote fro way to much crap in general - 05/08/2010 02:41:19 PM 825 Views
Yeah, I agree. - 05/08/2010 04:11:34 PM 800 Views
my one recent dealing with our criminal justice - 05/08/2010 04:25:30 PM 823 Views
There are certain things that should not be decided by a vote... - 05/08/2010 02:02:45 AM 890 Views
I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular. - 05/08/2010 02:17:24 AM 906 Views
Re: I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular. - 05/08/2010 10:46:54 AM 895 Views
I understand it. - 05/08/2010 03:06:40 PM 892 Views
I know you don't support proposition 8 - 05/08/2010 03:29:34 PM 900 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:34:01 PM 911 Views
But that is just simplistic and silly to complain about when it is a long standing possibility - 05/08/2010 03:46:59 PM 799 Views
Oh, ees it? - 05/08/2010 04:07:39 PM 925 Views
Well they knew the rules before they started the whole thing - 05/08/2010 04:12:33 PM 804 Views
Why would you complain if you won? - 05/08/2010 04:15:20 PM 870 Views
You could recognise that you won by the system working in a way you don't like? - 05/08/2010 04:23:58 PM 750 Views
I'm sure that happens, in general. - 06/08/2010 02:43:18 PM 778 Views
It seems to happen a lot nowadays - 06/08/2010 03:06:33 PM 771 Views
instead it should be decided by judges who answer to no one? *NM* - 05/08/2010 07:12:59 AM 440 Views
The same judges who upheld our private right to bear arms. - 05/08/2010 02:09:07 PM 899 Views
not when judges stop using the Constitution - 05/08/2010 02:30:51 PM 872 Views
Sexual preference is not the right being protected. - 05/08/2010 03:22:04 PM 928 Views
I know that the 14th amendment is routinely used in ways it was never intended. - 05/08/2010 05:25:07 PM 847 Views
I realize that, but it is ultimately a good thing. - 05/08/2010 05:31:19 PM 916 Views
I am really on the fence a bit on the whole issue - 05/08/2010 06:00:59 PM 883 Views
I generally agree with you. - 05/08/2010 06:33:56 PM 869 Views
let's take away the citizenship of all black people if that's the way you think - 05/08/2010 09:06:23 PM 789 Views
Come now lets not be stupid - 06/08/2010 05:31:18 PM 740 Views
sorry but your statement was completely ignorant. - 06/08/2010 07:27:09 PM 858 Views
I will talk as soon as you stop spouting stupid rhetoric and say something relevant - 06/08/2010 07:54:09 PM 827 Views
bullshit. you will personally attack me no matter what i say. - 07/08/2010 02:04:04 PM 869 Views
Let's just be clear about which amendment is which. - 05/08/2010 11:50:57 PM 783 Views
but that still ignores intent and expands the law in ways not intnented when it created - 06/08/2010 04:53:43 AM 797 Views
Yes, no, no, and no. - 06/08/2010 05:29:09 AM 854 Views
there are serious flaws in your thinking here - 06/08/2010 06:18:13 PM 924 Views
Your assertions continue to lack support. - 06/08/2010 07:23:17 PM 945 Views
not all you just refuse to see things you disagree with - 06/08/2010 08:36:32 PM 911 Views
...said the pot to the kettle - 06/08/2010 09:17:28 PM 990 Views
yes but a shiny stainless steel pot - 09/08/2010 11:21:33 PM 1039 Views
You continue to be wrong about history and the role of courts. - 10/08/2010 01:05:39 AM 1388 Views
If he's wrong, a lot of law scholars and Supreme Court Justices are wrong. - 10/08/2010 01:44:05 AM 828 Views
Brown vs. Board of Education, 'nuff said. *NM* - 10/08/2010 04:32:37 AM 434 Views
part oif the problem appears to be you completely missing the point - 10/08/2010 01:23:19 PM 1033 Views
let my simplify my argument - 10/08/2010 01:42:47 PM 767 Views
Since when is marriage a right? *NM* - 05/08/2010 04:11:16 PM 420 Views
it may not be a "right"... - 05/08/2010 04:22:44 PM 771 Views
This is where the debate comes into play.... - 05/08/2010 05:04:08 PM 799 Views
How much would it change the debate if it was nurture, really? - 05/08/2010 09:48:22 PM 857 Views
except this is not merely a matter of changing society - 05/08/2010 11:18:48 PM 870 Views
1948. *NM* - 05/08/2010 04:50:30 PM 448 Views
It's a benefit that is being extended selectively to one set of the populace. - 05/08/2010 04:52:52 PM 855 Views
Hey, I'm single.... - 05/08/2010 05:05:41 PM 782 Views
That's a specious argument and you know it. - 05/08/2010 05:13:17 PM 840 Views
A homosexual has every opportunity as well..... - 05/08/2010 05:23:56 PM 792 Views
Oh quit the bullshit already. - 05/08/2010 05:29:15 PM 1042 Views
Slow your role... - 05/08/2010 09:08:54 PM 909 Views
Your religious beliefs have 100% to do with your position. - 05/08/2010 09:43:23 PM 934 Views
Sorry, but what a nonsense. - 05/08/2010 09:27:17 PM 777 Views
hey that's it, jens! you solved the WHOLE PROBLEM!!! - 05/08/2010 11:24:29 PM 899 Views
ON TO WORLD HUNGER! - 06/08/2010 07:59:51 AM 790 Views
LET THEM HAVE CAEK. *NM* - 06/08/2010 02:29:56 PM 412 Views
Are you sure it's wise to feed people on a lie? *NM* - 06/08/2010 02:34:26 PM 499 Views
People are fed lies all the time - 06/08/2010 09:30:37 PM 772 Views
I agree with you - 05/08/2010 05:06:40 PM 821 Views
That's not valid. - 05/08/2010 05:26:50 PM 824 Views
I invite you to read the judge's conclusions, linked again inside. - 05/08/2010 11:43:44 PM 886 Views
Since 1948 - 06/08/2010 04:01:02 AM 1021 Views
gah. can. only. see. typo. *NM* - 06/08/2010 03:43:21 PM 402 Views
I don't see any typo... *NM* - 06/08/2010 04:07:18 PM 466 Views
Open the link. *NM* - 06/08/2010 04:47:04 PM 555 Views
Oh, right. Yeah, that does kinda detract from things. *NM* - 06/08/2010 04:48:47 PM 433 Views
I agree - 05/08/2010 07:22:17 AM 843 Views
And Civil Rights lost the Democrats the South. - 05/08/2010 03:44:56 PM 851 Views
but it was done by congress passing laws and the president signing those laws - 05/08/2010 04:20:19 PM 795 Views
uhm, what? - 05/08/2010 04:24:43 PM 790 Views
those were mostly rulings up holding laws not stiking them down - 05/08/2010 05:05:15 PM 881 Views
I was under the impression that the supreme court had a role in it - 05/08/2010 04:31:51 PM 799 Views
but the court was not over turning the laws passed by congress - 05/08/2010 05:11:06 PM 864 Views
No, like in this case, isn't it? - 05/08/2010 05:24:19 PM 765 Views
I would say that is another case of judicial activism and shows the danger of the practice - 05/08/2010 05:43:02 PM 756 Views
Which one is? I imagine from different view points both are. - 06/08/2010 10:34:11 AM 749 Views
The law wasn't constitutional. - 07/08/2010 06:17:04 AM 780 Views
well it will take a higher court to decide that - 09/08/2010 10:46:15 PM 810 Views
Hard to believe it's the same governor who said "Gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." *NM* - 04/08/2010 11:05:45 PM 508 Views
Or "Iff it bleeds we can kill itt!" *NM* - 04/08/2010 11:14:45 PM 489 Views
Another step in the right direction. *NM* - 04/08/2010 11:08:15 PM 510 Views
Link to the full court order inside: - 04/08/2010 11:43:29 PM 999 Views
The judge quoting Scalia in favour of gay marriage is fairly amusing. - 04/08/2010 11:50:47 PM 843 Views
What page was that on? - 05/08/2010 11:25:49 AM 756 Views
Nah, it was way above page 109, in the findings of fact somewhere. - 05/08/2010 12:37:48 PM 870 Views
Oh, that is brilliant. - 05/08/2010 01:12:21 PM 786 Views
Pretty much. - 05/08/2010 01:44:22 PM 919 Views
I've always wondered what basis there is for banning necrophilia if "it's disgusting" is invalid. - 05/08/2010 01:51:19 PM 853 Views
because you cannot give consent when you are dead? - 05/08/2010 03:04:46 PM 860 Views
what if you give consent while you are still alive? - 05/08/2010 03:21:59 PM 932 Views
Is it then illegal? - 05/08/2010 03:23:46 PM 845 Views
I would think it would be illegal even then - 05/08/2010 03:34:31 PM 867 Views
Wikipedia to the rescue! - 05/08/2010 04:20:15 PM 1026 Views
A dead body is just an object, not a person with rights. - 05/08/2010 03:27:08 PM 849 Views
Yes, but - 06/08/2010 08:42:05 AM 808 Views
Absolutely not. - 06/08/2010 03:21:14 PM 864 Views
not to mention necrophilia has a large potential to be hazardous to health. - 06/08/2010 09:42:43 PM 956 Views
That was a very well written judgement. - 05/08/2010 11:24:38 AM 862 Views
- 05/08/2010 12:10:02 AM 856 Views
Totally agree. - 05/08/2010 01:01:42 PM 902 Views
+1 *NM* - 05/08/2010 03:42:08 PM 453 Views
Irrelevant decision.....this was heading to SCOTUS from day 1 *NM* - 05/08/2010 12:53:26 AM 463 Views

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