There's a simple way to determine the degree to which that opinion is objective or subjective...
Legolas Send a noteboard - 06/08/2010 09:32:21 PM
Also, your continued assertion that the judge is trying to "change the law" to meet his "personal idea of justice" shows nothing more than that you still haven't read the ruling. If you can point to specific passages indicating the judge is relying on his personal opinion above an objective interpretation of the facts and evidence, do so. Otherwise, quit it with the unsubstantiated claims.
Which is asking yourself honestly whether a judge personally opposed to gay marriage could have come to the opposite conclusion without intentionally misinterpreting or ignoring the law. In other words, whether the court case was a formality - whether the Supreme Court appeal that will no doubt happen at some point will be a formality. I think it's fairly clear that the answer is that yes, such a judge could have reached the opposite conclusion, and no, the Supreme Court appeal will not be a formality.
Before even looking at the opinion itself, there have been important judgement calls made by the judge that could have gone another way - I'm referring to the decision of which materials to review and to take into account.
And then in the opinion itself, most of the "findings of fact" are, obviously, factual to some degree, although on certain topics they present things as incontroversial fact that other judges might have been a bit more hesitant about (most notably number 70 where he claims there is no serious debate anymore about children raised by lesbian and gay couples being not different from those raised by straight couples). And there are a few that are seriously dubious (most particularly number 61 which claims that "Proposition 8 amends the California Constitution to codify distinct and unique roles for men and women in marriage"
. When he gets to discussing the Due Process matter, though, and delves into what the "core" of marriage has been historically and what it is now, surely there's a good bit of subjectivism in that. Obviously I agree with him, but still one can legitimately disagree with some of the statements there. And then there's (p. 132-133) the matter of whether moral disapprobation of something is a sufficient reason for legislative action - he seems to take it for granted that it isn't, based on Lawrence v. Texas. The SC did indeed strike down Texas' sodomy laws as he says, but it was far from a unanimous decision, and Wikipedia says lower courts have declined to apply that decision too widely later on (for instance upholding an Alabama ban on sex toys). That doesn't mean Walker is wrong to use Lawrence to rule as he does, but it does mean it would've been possible to rule otherwise.
Judge rules California's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional
- 04/08/2010 10:40:50 PM
1467 Views
Good news, but as the article says, it'll go all the way to the SC.
- 04/08/2010 10:55:58 PM
797 Views
So then is that how we do it?
- 04/08/2010 11:01:19 PM
936 Views
Of course.
- 04/08/2010 11:04:59 PM
829 Views
His point was
- 04/08/2010 11:40:14 PM
973 Views
Yeah but: What Ghavrel said below *NM*
- 05/08/2010 08:01:02 AM
468 Views
And again...
- 05/08/2010 06:08:56 PM
696 Views
To quote my property professor: "Can I make you think like a Californian?"
- 05/08/2010 06:39:48 PM
742 Views
I'm not the one who came up with the referendum system, you do realize.
- 04/08/2010 11:11:13 PM
818 Views
- 04/08/2010 11:11:13 PM
818 Views
The referendum system, in my opinion, has been a failure, especially in CA.
- 04/08/2010 11:46:21 PM
910 Views
democracy has been a failure in CA.
- 05/08/2010 02:42:21 PM
684 Views
No. It just shows the problems of a crazy electorate.
- 05/08/2010 03:29:21 PM
831 Views
we vote fro way to much crap in general
- 05/08/2010 02:41:19 PM
776 Views
Yes, you still have to abide by the Constitution, even if a lot of people don't like it. *NM*
- 05/08/2010 12:07:44 AM
423 Views
Amend the Constitution to alter the Fourteenth Amendment if you don't like it. *NM*
- 05/08/2010 01:09:51 AM
498 Views
just a devil's advocate position here, but....
- 05/08/2010 04:23:43 AM
851 Views
Marriage is either an economic status regulated by law or a religious institution.
- 05/08/2010 05:13:17 AM
874 Views
There are certain things that should not be decided by a vote...
- 05/08/2010 02:02:45 AM
849 Views
I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular.
- 05/08/2010 02:17:24 AM
877 Views
Re: I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular.
- 05/08/2010 10:46:54 AM
858 Views
I understand it.
- 05/08/2010 03:06:40 PM
848 Views
I know you don't support proposition 8
- 05/08/2010 03:29:34 PM
861 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:34:01 PM
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- 05/08/2010 03:29:34 PM
861 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:34:01 PM
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But that is just simplistic and silly to complain about when it is a long standing possibility
- 05/08/2010 03:46:59 PM
759 Views
Oh, ees it?
- 05/08/2010 04:07:39 PM
885 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:07:39 PM
885 Views
Well they knew the rules before they started the whole thing
- 05/08/2010 04:12:33 PM
767 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:12:33 PM
767 Views
Why would you complain if you won?
- 05/08/2010 04:15:20 PM
833 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:15:20 PM
833 Views
You could recognise that you won by the system working in a way you don't like?
- 05/08/2010 04:23:58 PM
709 Views
I'm sure that happens, in general.
- 06/08/2010 02:43:18 PM
701 Views
It seems to happen a lot nowadays
- 06/08/2010 03:06:33 PM
720 Views
It's so weird that you feel differently - there is only room for one opinion here!
- 06/08/2010 03:41:52 PM
643 Views
- 06/08/2010 03:41:52 PM
643 Views
instead it should be decided by judges who answer to no one? *NM*
- 05/08/2010 07:12:59 AM
421 Views
The same judges who upheld our private right to bear arms.
- 05/08/2010 02:09:07 PM
849 Views
not when judges stop using the Constitution
- 05/08/2010 02:30:51 PM
832 Views
Sexual preference is not the right being protected.
- 05/08/2010 03:22:04 PM
891 Views
I know that the 14th amendment is routinely used in ways it was never intended.
- 05/08/2010 05:25:07 PM
803 Views
I realize that, but it is ultimately a good thing.
- 05/08/2010 05:31:19 PM
879 Views
let's take away the citizenship of all black people if that's the way you think
- 05/08/2010 09:06:23 PM
735 Views
Come now lets not be stupid
- 06/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
698 Views
sorry but your statement was completely ignorant.
- 06/08/2010 07:27:09 PM
820 Views
I will talk as soon as you stop spouting stupid rhetoric and say something relevant
- 06/08/2010 07:54:09 PM
787 Views
Let's just be clear about which amendment is which.
- 05/08/2010 11:50:57 PM
738 Views
but that still ignores intent and expands the law in ways not intnented when it created
- 06/08/2010 04:53:43 AM
758 Views
Yes, no, no, and no.
- 06/08/2010 05:29:09 AM
807 Views
there are serious flaws in your thinking here
- 06/08/2010 06:18:13 PM
877 Views
Your assertions continue to lack support.
- 06/08/2010 07:23:17 PM
906 Views
not all you just refuse to see things you disagree with
- 06/08/2010 08:36:32 PM
864 Views
...said the pot to the kettle
- 06/08/2010 09:17:28 PM
941 Views
yes but a shiny stainless steel pot
- 09/08/2010 11:21:33 PM
999 Views
You continue to be wrong about history and the role of courts.
- 10/08/2010 01:05:39 AM
1340 Views
If he's wrong, a lot of law scholars and Supreme Court Justices are wrong.
- 10/08/2010 01:44:05 AM
782 Views
Brown vs. Board of Education, 'nuff said. *NM*
- 10/08/2010 04:32:37 AM
420 Views
Actually, that only proves his point, if I understand correctly. *NM*
- 10/08/2010 11:11:19 AM
448 Views
part oif the problem appears to be you completely missing the point
- 10/08/2010 01:23:19 PM
996 Views
There's a simple way to determine the degree to which that opinion is objective or subjective...
- 06/08/2010 09:32:21 PM
748 Views
Since when is marriage a right? *NM*
- 05/08/2010 04:11:16 PM
404 Views
it may not be a "right"...
- 05/08/2010 04:22:44 PM
731 Views
It's a benefit that is being extended selectively to one set of the populace.
- 05/08/2010 04:52:52 PM
816 Views
Hey, I'm single....
- 05/08/2010 05:05:41 PM
739 Views
That's a specious argument and you know it.
- 05/08/2010 05:13:17 PM
802 Views
A homosexual has every opportunity as well.....
- 05/08/2010 05:23:56 PM
756 Views
Oh quit the bullshit already.
- 05/08/2010 05:29:15 PM
989 Views
Sorry, but what a nonsense.
- 05/08/2010 09:27:17 PM
741 Views
hey that's it, jens! you solved the WHOLE PROBLEM!!!
- 05/08/2010 11:24:29 PM
858 Views
ON TO WORLD HUNGER!
- 06/08/2010 07:59:51 AM
743 Views
LET THEM HAVE CAEK. *NM*
- 06/08/2010 02:29:56 PM
388 Views
Are you sure it's wise to feed people on a lie? *NM*
- 06/08/2010 02:34:26 PM
479 Views
People are fed lies all the time
- 06/08/2010 09:30:37 PM
725 Views
Quite so, but I don't think it's commonly a mainstay of their diet *NM*
- 06/08/2010 09:50:33 PM
424 Views
It is the only thing which is abundant enough for everyone to have some...
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 10:01:44 PM
674 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 10:01:44 PM
674 Views
I invite you to read the judge's conclusions, linked again inside.
- 05/08/2010 11:43:44 PM
836 Views
Since 1948
- 06/08/2010 04:01:02 AM
972 Views
gah. can. only. see. typo. *NM*
- 06/08/2010 03:43:21 PM
383 Views
I don't see any typo...
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 04:07:18 PM
437 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 04:07:18 PM
437 Views
I agree
- 05/08/2010 07:22:17 AM
805 Views
And Civil Rights lost the Democrats the South.
- 05/08/2010 03:44:56 PM
814 Views
but it was done by congress passing laws and the president signing those laws
- 05/08/2010 04:20:19 PM
764 Views
I was under the impression that the supreme court had a role in it
- 05/08/2010 04:31:51 PM
752 Views
but the court was not over turning the laws passed by congress
- 05/08/2010 05:11:06 PM
813 Views
No, like in this case, isn't it?
- 05/08/2010 05:24:19 PM
732 Views
I would say that is another case of judicial activism and shows the danger of the practice
- 05/08/2010 05:43:02 PM
717 Views
Hard to believe it's the same governor who said "Gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." *NM*
- 04/08/2010 11:05:45 PM
492 Views
Link to the full court order inside:
- 04/08/2010 11:43:29 PM
949 Views
The judge quoting Scalia in favour of gay marriage is fairly amusing.
- 04/08/2010 11:50:47 PM
804 Views
What page was that on?
- 05/08/2010 11:25:49 AM
722 Views
Nah, it was way above page 109, in the findings of fact somewhere.
- 05/08/2010 12:37:48 PM
836 Views
Oh, that is brilliant.
- 05/08/2010 01:12:21 PM
736 Views
Pretty much.
- 05/08/2010 01:44:22 PM
864 Views
I've always wondered what basis there is for banning necrophilia if "it's disgusting" is invalid.
- 05/08/2010 01:51:19 PM
816 Views
because you cannot give consent when you are dead?
- 05/08/2010 03:04:46 PM
820 Views
what if you give consent while you are still alive?
- 05/08/2010 03:21:59 PM
899 Views
Is it then illegal?
- 05/08/2010 03:23:46 PM
811 Views
given I imagine the pro-necrophilia lobby isn't strong in numbers or influence
- 05/08/2010 03:33:11 PM
880 Views
Re: given I imagine the pro-necrophilia lobby isn't strong in numbers or influence
- 05/08/2010 03:34:57 PM
916 Views
I would think it would be illegal even then
- 05/08/2010 03:34:31 PM
830 Views
Wikipedia to the rescue!
- 05/08/2010 04:20:15 PM
977 Views
you would hope the other states would cover it under improper treatmentof human remains
- 05/08/2010 07:38:59 PM
776 Views
A dead body is just an object, not a person with rights.
- 05/08/2010 03:27:08 PM
818 Views
Yes, but
- 06/08/2010 08:42:05 AM
766 Views
Absolutely not.
- 06/08/2010 03:21:14 PM
814 Views
not to mention necrophilia has a large potential to be hazardous to health.
- 06/08/2010 09:42:43 PM
908 Views
Irrelevant decision.....this was heading to SCOTUS from day 1 *NM*
- 05/08/2010 12:53:26 AM
449 Views


