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O'Reilly isn't as bad as he's made out to be. (edit) Legolas Send a noteboard - 18/08/2010 11:10:33 PM
If you did, you'd recognise most of the points made in this post. On the side that thinks the arguments against the mosque are stupid. I assume the other half get their ammunition from bill o'reilly.

He's opinionated, and he's right wing, and he has a nasty temper, as you can see in dozens of youtube clips. Yes. But he's not unreasonable, he debates the matters and it is possible to change his mind (or that's the impression I get, anyway; I won't claim to have seen even as much as half an hour total of either O'Reilly or Olbermann).
I haven't watched enough of Olberman to actually have an opinion, but I find your assessment of his as worse than o'reilly hard to believe. Really, really hard to believe. Do you have examples of the bad?

Well, I'm not saying O'Reilly is closer to my opinions, or that I prefer his views. But I do think he's (second edit: he = Olbermann here, obviously) every bit as bad in terms of pontificating his own views and demonizing the other side as the people at Fox are supposed to be. More so than O'Reilly. As I said in my reply to Jen, Olbermann's "worst person in the world" section is of course intended humourously, but you sometimes get the impression he sort of means it, and has a hard time understanding how people could view that differently.

Edit: A fairly important point I should add: O'Reilly is much less partisan. He's not afraid of taking on the right anymore than he is of taking on the left.
This message last edited by Legolas on 18/08/2010 at 11:19:16 PM
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Wait, wait WAIT! The location for the so-called "mosque at ground zero" is actually 2 blocks away?! Avendesora - 17/08/2010 03:19:02 PM 2733 Views
it's still too close!! IT'S TOO CLOSE I SAY LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 03:23:12 PM 1698 Views
*NM* ironclad - 18/08/2010 11:40:26 AM 772 Views
Yes, it is. Elaine - 17/08/2010 03:23:33 PM 1730 Views
Another stupid question...is it even actually a mosque? Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 03:28:37 PM 1568 Views
I've heard the same. nossy - 17/08/2010 03:30:36 PM 1487 Views
So Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 03:35:43 PM 1606 Views
blog link nossy - 17/08/2010 03:41:43 PM 1847 Views
that's correct *NM* damookster - 17/08/2010 03:51:38 PM 768 Views
it's both from what I've heard. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:00:54 PM 1484 Views
sort of like most churches, mosques and temples? *NM* random thoughts - 17/08/2010 04:04:12 PM 765 Views
mmm, i think more like... LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:08:55 PM 1476 Views
it is a community center with a mosque Aisha - 17/08/2010 04:28:08 PM 1397 Views
A memorial! Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:58:52 PM 1603 Views
it is a community center with a mosque Aisha - 17/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 1540 Views
my wife's church has a play ground and community center random thoughts - 17/08/2010 04:47:52 PM 1495 Views
okay, cool then LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:17:04 PM 1320 Views
I was just being nit picky random thoughts - 17/08/2010 05:44:36 PM 1328 Views
Been hearing a lot on NPR nossy - 17/08/2010 03:32:42 PM 1569 Views
I could see it being insensitive if it were actually where the towers used to be. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 03:43:18 PM 1657 Views
Yeah. nossy - 17/08/2010 03:51:13 PM 1571 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:02:44 PM 1435 Views
This could be part of the reason that most of the opposition doesn't seem to be coming from locals. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 03:53:06 PM 1586 Views
seriously, it's not like property is some ample commodity in NYC *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:03:24 PM 808 Views
you should probably keep in mind.... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:02:25 PM 1590 Views
So Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 04:06:18 PM 1645 Views
Ground Zero specifically refers to the north and south towers where the planes struck... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:26:40 PM 1560 Views
don't use that term at all. Say WTC. *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 12:27:32 AM 780 Views
I know. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:26:19 PM 1494 Views
it certainly has turned into a political land mine for Obama... damookster - 17/08/2010 03:54:03 PM 1502 Views
True nossy - 17/08/2010 04:02:04 PM 1321 Views
unfortunately... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:05:08 PM 1455 Views
That's because they are pussies. nossy - 17/08/2010 04:10:59 PM 1615 Views
This is beginning to sound familiar. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:18:37 PM 1691 Views
with the senate majority leader weighing it I don't believe it is all how it is mostly on the right random thoughts - 17/08/2010 05:58:10 PM 1583 Views
Seems we disagree on that, then. Legolas - 17/08/2010 06:05:33 PM 1553 Views
hardly the first time random thoughts - 17/08/2010 06:56:33 PM 1536 Views
Well, since day 1 of this whole debate alot of the opposition has come from the right. Variant - 17/08/2010 10:50:49 PM 1575 Views
you assume it is pandering maybe they just agree with the majority random thoughts - 18/08/2010 02:30:53 AM 1477 Views
I'm not saying it's a partisan issue, but it has turned political for all the wrong reasons. Variant - 18/08/2010 04:18:49 AM 1657 Views
is the idea that it is not to close to ground zero the misinformation you are refering to? random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:09:17 PM 1488 Views
Well, it's not like they're literally on ground zero. Variant - 18/08/2010 08:54:08 PM 1658 Views
ground zero is defined as where the old WTC complex was random thoughts - 19/08/2010 12:23:32 PM 1458 Views
And anything within a 3 block radius apparently? Variant - 20/08/2010 04:44:25 AM 1520 Views
Guess which of them will be out of a job in January? Joel - 18/08/2010 01:22:49 PM 1501 Views
the only reason Obama won't be out of job is he isn't running random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:10:58 PM 1461 Views
Oh, I dunno if you could translate the current numbers into Obamas defeat. Joel - 18/08/2010 03:52:18 PM 1533 Views
Bush's numbers were much better in 04 then Obama's are now random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:11:31 PM 1623 Views
Perhaps so then. Joel - 19/08/2010 04:51:36 PM 1506 Views
it was a large event so two half blocks really is pretty damn close random thoughts - 17/08/2010 04:03:17 PM 1607 Views
Here's a map of the site for perspective Isaac - 17/08/2010 04:08:41 PM 1660 Views
so 2 blocks from the superblock then? LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:13:03 PM 1714 Views
I guess, superblock is an obscure term to this country lad Isaac - 17/08/2010 04:41:11 PM 1482 Views
It may not necessarily matter to people who are aware of that fact. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:13:12 PM 1463 Views
mk, well, to my mind (being from phoeni, 1 full city block is about 1 mile. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:15:49 PM 1519 Views
A mile is a serious exaggeration, surely. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:24:48 PM 1639 Views
Remember, I did say in Phoenix LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:27:43 PM 1570 Views
I really need to see Phoenix some day. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:32:40 PM 1561 Views
i still think houston is more spread out than phoenix moondog - 18/08/2010 08:21:10 AM 1556 Views
unless you go far enough west of course random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:30:45 PM 1422 Views
most of california is pretty spread out, city-wise. moondog - 19/08/2010 02:16:44 AM 1389 Views
true, I was think along the lines of San Fransico random thoughts - 19/08/2010 03:47:12 AM 1472 Views
Absolutely. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 05:28:38 PM 1543 Views
Yeah, and it seems to be about 10 autobuses in distance on Google Earth. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:29:43 PM 1416 Views
In NYC, generally 1 mile = 20 blocks *NM* BlackAdder - 17/08/2010 05:25:21 PM 818 Views
Okay. I guess i just forget how much larger Phoenix is *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:28:13 PM 735 Views
Google Earth says 500 feet between mosque and GZ *NM* Isaac - 17/08/2010 05:30:59 PM 759 Views
*edit* Just for reference... one mile = 5280 feet, 500ft = approx 1/10 of a mile. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 06:26:19 PM 1489 Views
Judging by Google Earth, the blocks inbetween both contain a single large building. (edit) Legolas - 17/08/2010 07:08:05 PM 1402 Views
Clarify: 500 ft between the mosque and the border of the area on the map? *NM* Avendesora - 17/08/2010 07:03:51 PM 739 Views
Probably, given my corner-to-corner result. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 07:26:19 PM 768 Views
Yes, down West Broadway (contains old ground view from site) Isaac - 17/08/2010 07:31:58 PM 1697 Views
Personally, I think this supports Ave's point. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 04:16:15 PM 1573 Views
yes... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:29:51 PM 1598 Views
Right. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 04:31:29 PM 1533 Views
Believe me, honey. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:32:47 PM 1386 Views
Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 04:37:19 PM 1450 Views
You know what else is on Park Place? A strip club. Aeryn - 17/08/2010 11:58:56 PM 1456 Views
Really? I had no idea Isaac - 18/08/2010 12:06:27 AM 1518 Views
Re: Really? I had no idea Aeryn - 18/08/2010 12:24:54 AM 1562 Views
Hmm... Isaac - 18/08/2010 01:23:14 AM 1500 Views
I didn't even know I was responding to you. Aeryn - 18/08/2010 04:08:36 AM 1467 Views
Thanks Isaac - 18/08/2010 04:23:47 AM 1457 Views
It happens...? Joel - 18/08/2010 01:29:44 PM 1300 Views
knowing there's a strip club and "walking those streets"; seems like you've "gotten around" moondog - 18/08/2010 02:03:14 AM 1512 Views
*NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 04:10:10 AM 744 Views
They're building on the hallowed ground of a Burlington Coat Factory! Vodalus - 17/08/2010 04:13:06 PM 1555 Views
how so? LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:14:17 PM 1382 Views
Maybe it's got something to do with Cordoba, Spain? Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:16:38 PM 1461 Views
From when the Moors conquered Spain Vodalus - 17/08/2010 04:18:18 PM 1634 Views
ah mk. fair enough then. *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:35:39 PM 863 Views
to clarify though snoopcester - 17/08/2010 04:50:19 PM 1432 Views
in that respect, I rather like the name *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:23:18 PM 809 Views
Yes, but you have to remember the mindset of those protesting. Vodalus - 17/08/2010 09:49:26 PM 1518 Views
Oh indeed snoopcester - 18/08/2010 10:20:45 AM 1542 Views
Oh, yeah. I foolishly assumed people would know that part. *NM* Vodalus - 18/08/2010 05:34:39 PM 778 Views
Sorry, but the card says it was "the Moops" so you must be wrong. Tom - 18/08/2010 03:56:11 PM 1480 Views
Aaaaaaaaagh Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:13:17 PM 1473 Views
*NM* Vodalus - 18/08/2010 05:31:20 PM 742 Views
Or a Christian conquest of Islam, surely. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:07:53 PM 1584 Views
Right on the button. *NM* Tim - 17/08/2010 04:19:39 PM 756 Views
Ezra Klein made a good point in the Washington Post... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:33:31 PM 1431 Views
Re: Ezra Klein made a good point in the Washington Post... Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:34:47 PM 1439 Views
it was a rhetorical question in his column damookster - 17/08/2010 04:43:25 PM 1570 Views
that is hardly the same thing random thoughts - 17/08/2010 04:56:43 PM 1514 Views
so suppose... damookster - 17/08/2010 06:06:03 PM 1443 Views
I am sure it will I just don't see the relevance random thoughts - 17/08/2010 06:57:41 PM 1558 Views
My question is, why would you want to put a mosque/community center/thing that close? StormCrow - 17/08/2010 04:39:05 PM 1468 Views
angry New Yorkers? damookster - 17/08/2010 04:45:01 PM 1560 Views
I was going to guess 4 protests to your earlier post. StormCrow - 17/08/2010 04:50:08 PM 1541 Views
We do not live in fear of what "a few crazy people" might do. *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 12:02:06 AM 718 Views
Re: angry New Yorkers? snoopcester - 17/08/2010 04:53:58 PM 1493 Views
I was wondering about that. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:56:28 PM 1574 Views
Re: I was wondering about that. snoopcester - 17/08/2010 05:05:50 PM 1558 Views
interesting map, thanks for posting it. *NM* Avendesora - 17/08/2010 05:55:06 PM 798 Views
That's a good point too and I didn't think about that. StormCrow - 17/08/2010 05:39:53 PM 1652 Views
I think what this position misses Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 05:01:52 PM 1698 Views
Ok, sure. StormCrow - 17/08/2010 06:09:33 PM 1567 Views
Hoboken? The_Muted_Grimaud - 17/08/2010 09:06:07 PM 1414 Views
Indeed. Not a serious suggestion about putting it there. StormCrow - 17/08/2010 09:13:35 PM 1390 Views
angry New Yorkers? Geez, we are more civilized than that, thank you. *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 12:01:12 AM 716 Views
not really *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 02:31:46 AM 638 Views
your opinion is noted. now go eff yourself. *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 04:11:25 AM 691 Views
that's pretty good BlackAdder - 18/08/2010 04:44:14 AM 1479 Views
That's right. Why resort to violence when a good rant will do? *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 06:09:27 AM 717 Views
and a heart fuck off to you but thanks for the ironic reply *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:18:25 PM 721 Views
How is it ironic? *NM* Camilla - 18/08/2010 03:43:50 PM 789 Views
How was his uncivilized response ironic? *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:18:17 PM 700 Views
Yes. Where is the irony? Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:20:57 PM 1426 Views
Re: How was his uncivilized response ironic? random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:23:25 PM 1419 Views
Aaah Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:31:02 PM 1481 Views
Re: Aaah random thoughts - 18/08/2010 05:30:07 PM 1418 Views
Re: Aaah Camilla - 18/08/2010 05:38:47 PM 1482 Views
To both of you: her. And she. *NM* Legolas - 18/08/2010 05:44:03 PM 726 Views
I knew that. *NM* Camilla - 18/08/2010 05:45:21 PM 706 Views
I'm not a New Yorker. Not impuning your civility either. StormCrow - 19/08/2010 02:45:55 AM 1672 Views
Because the building is cheap as hell, because they're mostly abandoned in those areas Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:25:13 AM 1495 Views
Something I'm confused on Isaac - 17/08/2010 04:59:41 PM 1762 Views
another thing to consider. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 05:02:38 PM 1438 Views
You'll have to explain to me what that has to do with what I said Isaac - 17/08/2010 05:10:21 PM 1452 Views
I don't think anyone is saying it's not "near" ground zero. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 05:12:52 PM 1568 Views
Of course you're confused. It was a tangental thought. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 06:06:29 PM 1502 Views
Fair enough, I can't really criticize others for going off on tangents since I do it so much *NM* Isaac - 17/08/2010 06:36:54 PM 755 Views
On that tangent though, an interesting article Isaac - 17/08/2010 07:50:44 PM 1585 Views
From what I understand, there's another mosque very close to the site Brian - 17/08/2010 05:06:26 PM 1613 Views
I understand there's also a strip club and a xxx movie rental shop within that same 2 blocks radius. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:09:26 PM 1529 Views
Looks like 2 or 3 blocks, I love Google Earth Isaac - 17/08/2010 05:17:01 PM 1568 Views
True but the buildings were not nocked down by radical strippers *NM* random thoughts - 17/08/2010 05:52:04 PM 742 Views
Joss Whedon purchased the rights to this movie already. *NM* StormCrow - 17/08/2010 06:29:34 PM 802 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 17/08/2010 06:38:27 PM 718 Views
Yep. Is true. *NM* Aeryn - 17/08/2010 11:59:31 PM 738 Views
What do strip clubs and dirty movies and gay bars have to do with 9/11? *NM* ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:33:59 AM 753 Views
Nothing, which is precisely the point. *NM* Legolas - 18/08/2010 12:37:52 AM 752 Views
Can you explain your point to me then? Because I'm not following it. ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:21:13 AM 1413 Views
The argument is that it's "hallowed ground" and therefore should be treated with "respect" Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:26:44 AM 1586 Views
No. That might be one argument, but hardly the only one. ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:31:14 AM 1561 Views
Pretty much what Greg said. Legolas - 18/08/2010 09:39:33 AM 1500 Views
then you are missing the point random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:02:49 PM 1659 Views
In all fairness... Variant - 18/08/2010 09:46:26 PM 1539 Views
these guys are not babes in the woods random thoughts - 19/08/2010 12:28:24 PM 1375 Views
I never said they were. Variant - 20/08/2010 04:56:53 AM 1540 Views
Respond/Double post. *NM* Variant - 20/08/2010 04:57:25 AM 669 Views
This whole debate disgusts me. Napoleon62 - 17/08/2010 05:24:56 PM 1683 Views
I'm not going to ask why. *NM* Avendesora - 17/08/2010 06:21:13 PM 722 Views
Agreed Camilla - 17/08/2010 08:10:34 PM 1642 Views
Yep, I see a lot of ugliness in this discussion ironclad - 18/08/2010 11:42:34 AM 1446 Views
Jon Stewart made good point last night Aisha - 17/08/2010 05:34:19 PM 1574 Views
but it's the CONCEPT!!! practical effect is not the POINT of political debate!! *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:53:30 PM 741 Views
which is why Obama was crazy to get anywhere this issue random thoughts - 17/08/2010 06:01:44 PM 1434 Views
He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't Brian - 17/08/2010 06:18:16 PM 1439 Views
that really isn't true random thoughts - 17/08/2010 07:09:29 PM 1543 Views
yah he really should have just stayed mum about it LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 07:37:03 PM 1499 Views
Ye gods, I agree with you AND CELIA! Joel - 18/08/2010 01:36:21 PM 1643 Views
double post random thoughts - 17/08/2010 06:01:44 PM 1451 Views
Hatemongers gotta hate. Beqi - 17/08/2010 07:43:17 PM 1488 Views
More than anything, I see this being a sensitivity issue.... Jeordam - 17/08/2010 07:43:45 PM 1467 Views
Avendesora - 17/08/2010 07:52:07 PM 1480 Views
Right on. Jeordam - 17/08/2010 08:09:44 PM 1451 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 08:12:20 PM 1218 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 08:12:21 PM 1520 Views
The crux is they can't HELP stirring "up the grief and pain of the past. " Joel - 18/08/2010 01:49:21 PM 1570 Views
are you serious? Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:01:01 PM 1582 Views
I think you got the point right there. Beqi - 17/08/2010 08:08:21 PM 1491 Views
Yes, I am... Jeordam - 17/08/2010 08:14:27 PM 1469 Views
The point is your analogy does not hold Camilla - 17/08/2010 08:19:29 PM 1490 Views
Plus snoopcester - 17/08/2010 08:26:36 PM 1549 Views
Yes. That. *NM* Camilla - 17/08/2010 08:28:14 PM 1371 Views
we should all learn pool saftey from pigeons and sparrows. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 08:37:37 PM 1415 Views
Sicko! snoopcester - 17/08/2010 08:48:05 PM 1443 Views
Re: Yes, I am... Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:42:27 PM 1605 Views
Just to be a pain in the... StormCrow - 17/08/2010 09:10:11 PM 1516 Views
Aren't they? Jeordam - 17/08/2010 09:19:58 PM 1569 Views
You may be interested in... Legolas - 17/08/2010 09:23:48 PM 1661 Views
*nods* So I was right.... Jeordam - 17/08/2010 09:26:59 PM 1345 Views
actually, it depends on the extent of the burning. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 11:01:11 PM 1414 Views
That is probably not fair snoopcester - 17/08/2010 11:12:22 PM 1450 Views
I know! ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 03:06:25 AM 1461 Views
it's all relative. nossy - 18/08/2010 03:33:35 AM 1624 Views
Using a touch of hyperbole, perhaps? snoopcester - 18/08/2010 10:18:36 AM 1512 Views
I'm so proud of you for noticing! ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 10:48:14 AM 1579 Views
Just making sure you knew I wasn't mistaking your reply for a constructive one snoopcester - 18/08/2010 12:08:41 PM 1445 Views
I give constuctive replies where they are due ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:30:42 PM 1531 Views
snoopcester - 18/08/2010 12:33:57 PM 1511 Views
ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:41:27 PM 1569 Views
Hey Snoop... ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:47:13 PM 1552 Views
What the hell were these people smoking? Joel - 18/08/2010 02:14:44 PM 1641 Views
COMPLETELY unrelated point that I don't blame you for ignoring... beckstcw - 19/08/2010 04:25:31 AM 1415 Views
And yet that's very close to what MADD and SADD do. Joel - 18/08/2010 01:56:51 PM 1614 Views
you are right of course random thoughts - 17/08/2010 08:22:23 PM 1453 Views
Re: you are right of course Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:34:31 PM 1619 Views
I agree. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 08:46:07 PM 1415 Views
you could be correct but it still shows a lack of sensitivity random thoughts - 17/08/2010 09:34:46 PM 1631 Views
I don't disagree that it's a sensitivity thing LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 08:10:01 PM 1600 Views
Re: I don't disagree that it's a sensitivity thing *NM* Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:29:59 PM 674 Views
This. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 08:31:17 PM 1496 Views
So, you're saying muslims should leave nyc to show their sensitivity, right? BlackAdder - 17/08/2010 10:31:55 PM 1446 Views
so your saying you always speak in over the top rhetoric? random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:22:20 PM 1321 Views
Well explain what the difference is, then BlackAdder - 18/08/2010 07:14:46 PM 1470 Views
not really sure how to start random thoughts - 18/08/2010 08:23:34 PM 1527 Views
THANK YOU ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:13:16 AM 1566 Views
Take deep breaths.. Variant - 18/08/2010 05:25:16 AM 1493 Views
Typing a post didn't really require all that much effort ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 06:13:15 AM 1550 Views
There are more important things in the world to worry about Ghavrel - 18/08/2010 08:51:35 AM 1544 Views
I do get angry over other things, you know ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 10:02:02 AM 1484 Views
Pretty much, yeah. Ghavrel - 18/08/2010 09:00:09 PM 1497 Views
I disagree, anger doesn't help in this debate, and it's only going to make things worse. Variant - 18/08/2010 10:56:30 AM 1545 Views
: Joel - 18/08/2010 02:52:51 PM 1632 Views
So what, the Americans supporting this mosque are "arrogant European pricks"? Legolas - 18/08/2010 10:12:51 AM 1358 Views
Kind of a stretch for you to make that assumption ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 11:31:16 AM 1549 Views
I hadn't read that other exchange yet, it made more sense after that. Legolas - 18/08/2010 12:35:18 PM 1595 Views
My only real objection is the same old one over whether respect is an entitlement. Joel - 18/08/2010 02:21:19 PM 1397 Views
A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11 Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:23:11 AM 1527 Views
Here comes the "xenophobia card." ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:27:50 AM 1585 Views
Which is why there was a bombing at another mosque earlier this year Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:31:51 AM 1471 Views
So? ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:39:49 AM 1564 Views
Re: A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11 BlackAdder - 18/08/2010 01:28:44 AM 1602 Views
Re: A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11 Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:34:22 AM 1565 Views
I think a better parallel would be the new neighbors opening a pool store. Joel - 18/08/2010 01:40:42 PM 1564 Views
A guy on CNN made a really good point about this Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:46:54 PM 1604 Views
That analogy really isn't better than Jeo's, and I would think worse. *NM* Legolas - 17/08/2010 09:02:50 PM 758 Views
hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 09:22:15 PM 1506 Views
Re: hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog Aisha - 17/08/2010 10:32:24 PM 1640 Views
precisely. Camilla - 17/08/2010 11:20:06 PM 1374 Views
Re: precisely. Aisha - 18/08/2010 01:32:09 AM 1494 Views
Re: precisely. Camilla - 18/08/2010 09:10:33 AM 1473 Views
not surprising that a guy on CNN made that point random thoughts - 17/08/2010 09:38:16 PM 1580 Views
Yeah this whole debate is pretty pointless to be completely honest BlackAdder - 17/08/2010 10:28:13 PM 1525 Views
An interesting point Vodalus - 18/08/2010 03:44:52 AM 1544 Views
In fairness, it's extremely hard to draw that line sometimes. Legolas - 18/08/2010 10:27:24 AM 1467 Views
well we have been shot at from enough mosque to make it hard to tell at times random thoughts - 18/08/2010 08:25:58 PM 1517 Views
I think this whole debate has made American look bad. Variant - 17/08/2010 10:58:23 PM 1438 Views
So what? ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:28:40 AM 1512 Views
Okay, so we're no longer the land of religous tolerance. Variant - 18/08/2010 04:09:24 AM 1702 Views
Were we ever? ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 04:18:16 AM 1661 Views
I guess not. Variant - 18/08/2010 04:25:03 AM 1614 Views
Re: I guess not. ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 05:56:49 AM 1502 Views
Re: I guess not. Variant - 18/08/2010 10:43:05 AM 1488 Views
Re: I guess not. ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:13:37 PM 1306 Views
Re: I guess not. Variant - 18/08/2010 09:30:21 PM 1445 Views
Yes, we were. Joel - 18/08/2010 02:34:39 PM 1490 Views
How does this work, do you only look bad to a bunch of ass wipes, or does anyone who thinks you look Helene - 18/08/2010 09:38:28 AM 1428 Views
Olberman's Special Comment on this one hits the nail on the head Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:29:45 AM 1601 Views
love that the Olberman video, but Jon Stewart did an awesome job too. *NM* Aisha - 18/08/2010 01:32:59 AM 692 Views
Olbermann and Stewart are possibly the two best people alive *NM* Napoleon62 - 18/08/2010 02:39:48 AM 780 Views
they make the top of my list for people I wnat to catch an STD *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 08:27:27 PM 709 Views
Let me just say... Legolas - 18/08/2010 09:20:38 PM 1543 Views
Re: Let me just say... Camilla - 18/08/2010 09:22:12 PM 1521 Views
I didn't watch that particular video, so maybe, yeah. *NM* Legolas - 18/08/2010 10:11:22 PM 747 Views
Re: I didn't watch that particular video, so maybe, yeah. Camilla - 18/08/2010 10:45:54 PM 1532 Views
O'Reilly isn't as bad as he's made out to be. (edit) Legolas - 18/08/2010 11:10:33 PM 1593 Views
I'm pretty sure I agree with you. nossy - 18/08/2010 10:48:09 PM 1445 Views
Why is it weird? Legolas - 18/08/2010 11:00:20 PM 1489 Views
dayum! thats like the ultimate insult *NM* Aisha - 19/08/2010 03:37:53 AM 716 Views
Stewart is great, but Olberman? You can't be serious. *NM* damookster - 18/08/2010 11:23:17 PM 791 Views
I love that poem Camilla - 18/08/2010 12:26:58 PM 1603 Views
I used to be so Idealistic to think this was AMERICA. StarrBecca - 18/08/2010 01:44:38 AM 1585 Views
It is America ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:49:35 AM 1552 Views
the key phrase is "congress shall make no law...." moondog - 18/08/2010 02:23:53 AM 1603 Views
14th ammendment changed that *NM* Roland00 - 18/08/2010 04:51:08 AM 753 Views
14th ammendment established a state religion? moondog - 18/08/2010 08:14:11 AM 1407 Views
No, but the Equal Protection Clause extended much of the BoR to the states. Joel - 18/08/2010 02:50:31 PM 1535 Views
did you go the the Huffington Post school of law? random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:29:14 PM 1474 Views
No, but I've spent more time around lawyers than I care to admit. Joel - 18/08/2010 03:45:36 PM 1554 Views
the defendent doesn't always get a complete picture *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:25:36 PM 729 Views
The only time I was ever in a courtroom was as a spectator. Joel - 19/08/2010 04:33:56 PM 1538 Views
It was meant to be a short comment Roland00 - 19/08/2010 01:13:39 AM 1601 Views
we also have freedom of speech random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:25:52 PM 1465 Views
The connection is inevitable and, I think, deliberate. Joel - 18/08/2010 01:15:41 PM 1666 Views
Hmm snoopcester - 18/08/2010 02:26:17 PM 1416 Views
Bottom line is it may be in everyones interest to DISassociate Islam from 911. Joel - 18/08/2010 02:58:17 PM 1497 Views
No, bottom line is people need to be able to keep to thoughts in their brains at any given time *NM* Camilla - 18/08/2010 03:31:03 PM 715 Views
You mean retain both "I want to promote Islam" AND "Dude, Ground Zero is right THERE! *points*" Joel - 18/08/2010 03:36:34 PM 1447 Views
No Camilla - 18/08/2010 03:43:08 PM 1504 Views
They clearly are tied to it. Joel - 18/08/2010 03:59:45 PM 1545 Views
How long ago were the Crusades? Jeordam - 18/08/2010 03:48:53 PM 1420 Views
Re: How long ago were the Crusades? Camilla - 18/08/2010 03:52:23 PM 1460 Views
So wait... Jeordam - 18/08/2010 04:09:10 PM 1405 Views
Yes, Jerodam. Christians are good. All the rest are bad. I see it now. Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:10:47 PM 1504 Views
Stop freaking out Camilla. You are such a drama queen some times. Jeordam - 18/08/2010 04:15:06 PM 1489 Views
That is not drama. That is fed up. *NM* Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:16:32 PM 807 Views
You're not the only one who is fed up.... Jeordam - 18/08/2010 04:24:27 PM 1298 Views
*giggle* Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:29:03 PM 1508 Views
We don't know that.... Jeordam - 18/08/2010 05:40:25 PM 1472 Views
We do nossy - 18/08/2010 05:49:33 PM 1596 Views
Re: You're not the only one who is fed up.... Helene - 18/08/2010 04:38:04 PM 1515 Views
This may be nitpicking, but I'll do it anyway because it's a widespread misconception... Legolas - 18/08/2010 04:30:20 PM 1434 Views
THANK YOU! Aisha - 18/08/2010 06:11:52 PM 1387 Views
Re: So wait... snoopcester - 18/08/2010 04:45:53 PM 1452 Views
I agreed with you at first - thought your first post was pretty insightful. nossy - 18/08/2010 05:46:02 PM 1487 Views
maybe it is actions that led to the crusades that never ended random thoughts - 19/08/2010 12:25:20 PM 1389 Views
I have to agree with Jeo that that's unfair. Joel - 19/08/2010 02:47:23 PM 1686 Views
The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way snoopcester - 18/08/2010 04:04:54 PM 1465 Views
Re: The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:11:34 PM 1492 Views
Depends whom you ask, when and where. Joel - 19/08/2010 03:06:18 PM 1407 Views
Right snoopcester - 20/08/2010 10:31:21 AM 1472 Views
Some people will always wonder about such things; we're still accused of "Crusading" today. Joel - 18/08/2010 04:07:02 PM 1491 Views
I don't disagree about the outreach, as such, but a remark... Legolas - 18/08/2010 04:37:52 PM 1356 Views
It's as much a local issue as the theme park Disney wanted to build at Gettysburg. Joel - 19/08/2010 03:15:03 PM 1418 Views
Have you ever BEEN to Gettysburg? SilverWarder - 19/08/2010 05:21:18 PM 1321 Views
A bit more background information Vodalus - 18/08/2010 05:30:04 PM 1605 Views
That's informative, thanks, but I'm not sure it really changes anything. Joel - 19/08/2010 03:27:05 PM 1430 Views
Step One: Manufacture controversey by means of misinformation (i.e. Mosque at Ground Zero) Vodalus - 19/08/2010 06:40:49 PM 1595 Views
To be fair snoopcester - 20/08/2010 10:38:01 AM 1546 Views
The location of this mosque is a horrid idea. Joel - 21/08/2010 05:34:58 PM 1413 Views
"Think of it as a center for muslim hippies." Jragghen - 18/08/2010 09:30:55 PM 1547 Views
Can I just say... LadyLorraine - 19/08/2010 01:45:38 AM 1366 Views
i have a side bar *NM* Aisha - 19/08/2010 03:36:10 AM 636 Views
you must have a teeny screen or a bad resolution LadyLorraine - 19/08/2010 05:03:57 AM 1454 Views
I know. Avendesora - 19/08/2010 12:20:11 PM 1520 Views
Roughly 2 football fields, yes. And around a corner SilverWarder - 19/08/2010 03:17:24 PM 1478 Views
Two hundred yards is nothing. Joel - 19/08/2010 04:44:34 PM 1423 Views
Sure it is - it's two large city blocks SilverWarder - 19/08/2010 05:15:46 PM 1482 Views
It's two fairly average city blocks, and not even that some places. Joel - 21/08/2010 06:07:33 PM 1456 Views
Well you can not like it if you choose SilverWarder - 25/08/2010 03:39:49 PM 1863 Views
You keep stating that this isn't about Islam. Libby - 20/08/2010 11:06:10 AM 1540 Views
That's because it's not. Joel - 21/08/2010 06:17:29 PM 1568 Views
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