No one's impressed by self preservation, and belated at that.
I'm not impressed by the homeless begging on the streets when it's fifteen degrees, either, but I give them hot drinks anyway. I find it hard to believe that I'm a nicer guy than God. That's the whole point of mercy; there aren't strings attached.
You have to accept God, at least on some level. Even to take your example literally, I can't keep track; the homeless wouldn't get the drinks unless God made:
1) The drinks,
2) Their source,
3) You,
4) The street,
5) The planet,
6) The universe, and, of course,
7) Them
When you know the score each one of those things is a huge flashing banner that says, "GOD EXISTS AND HERE HE IS111" in no uncertain or deniable terms. You can't HAVE being without God, and if we accept that God won't coerce free will and allow for an infinite number of choices there are bound to be some who will RESOLUTELY refuse and deny God utterly, particularly if the greatest of creation already has. That's one of my biggest problems with Universalism; I may not believe in a real physical Hell, but I very much believe in a real conscious Devil. Instead of constantly giving God crap we should be constantly thanking Him that we don't get smashed to pieces every time we decide to jump in front of another truck.
Anyway, my point is there have to be people, or beings, in that situation, and they truly have screwed themselves: They can't tolerate Gods Presence any more than He can tolerate their sins, and they can't BE apart from Him. What's God supposed to do, ram Himself down their throats? He came here, told us what to do, showed us HOW to do it, freaking DIED for all the times we didn't and came back to LIFE to prove He was Who He said. If people still wanna say, "Yeah... but I've seen better in Vegas" that's their problem. But it leaves them with nothing, not because mean ol' God took it away, but because mean ol' God was providing it all in the first place and the recipient said they didn't want it.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
So how do you define "Hell"? (*Edit with extra question.)
01/09/2010 09:27:29 PM
- 1470 Views
small townish.
01/09/2010 09:33:18 PM
- 969 Views
endless loops of reality TV, soft rock, and New Age music *NM*
01/09/2010 09:35:20 PM
- 467 Views
Hell, per Phelix...
01/09/2010 09:44:32 PM
- 1026 Views
Outliving the people you love. *NM*
01/09/2010 10:03:28 PM
- 541 Views
France.
01/09/2010 10:03:55 PM
- 1061 Views
That doesn't make sense
01/09/2010 10:17:36 PM
- 880 Views
I realise German food isn't great
01/09/2010 10:25:31 PM
- 970 Views
Mmmmmmmm...
01/09/2010 10:50:41 PM
- 979 Views
You people need a letter limit.
02/09/2010 02:35:10 AM
- 850 Views
I believe in Germany there is a word for that
02/09/2010 10:32:13 AM
- 961 Views
But with more ch's and some cute little dots over the vowels. *NM*
02/09/2010 09:13:36 PM
- 458 Views
.... for that?? *NM*
02/09/2010 05:43:48 PM
- 534 Views
We should reconsider if the retirement home we picked for her in Wales is the right place *NM*
03/09/2010 08:38:13 AM
- 584 Views
You are Welsh now?
03/09/2010 11:41:05 AM
- 980 Views

And British weather? *NM*
01/09/2010 10:18:31 PM
- 513 Views
Our weather is a talking point
*NM*
01/09/2010 10:25:52 PM
- 494 Views

Yes, but when it's the French doing the talking... you see where I'm going with this? *NM*
01/09/2010 10:27:50 PM
- 571 Views
Which is why the English are considered boring.
*NM*
01/09/2010 11:18:41 PM
- 485 Views

It isn't our fault people haven't experienced our weather
*NM*
01/09/2010 11:22:56 PM
- 592 Views

Does it ever actually change? I thought it was foggy, overcast and damp constantly.
01/09/2010 11:27:36 PM
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People in Seattle have. *NM*
02/09/2010 12:02:14 AM
- 562 Views
I actually envision it...
01/09/2010 10:22:16 PM
- 1080 Views
jaw-pain is that bad then?
01/09/2010 10:32:18 PM
- 956 Views
you see how much Tashy has changed....
01/09/2010 10:54:59 PM
- 1082 Views
So does anybody here actually envision it as burning in fire and brimstone? I have been told that
01/09/2010 11:25:15 PM
- 798 Views
no
02/09/2010 03:39:38 AM
- 841 Views
If you want to know what death is like you experience it every night when you sleep.
06/09/2010 04:37:41 AM
- 960 Views
I don't believe in Hell. At least not an eternal one.
01/09/2010 11:55:02 PM
- 1125 Views
One of my favorite jokes is along those lines...
02/09/2010 12:37:18 AM
- 989 Views
Hee! Reminds me of Bishop Gene Robinson.
02/09/2010 12:45:24 AM
- 787 Views
I love most of the words that come from Gene's mouth.
02/09/2010 12:48:24 AM
- 1001 Views

I got to have dinner with him. Sat at his table! He's so funny.
02/09/2010 01:00:23 AM
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A full wotmania chat with no ignore, no logout button and none of your friends present. *NM*
02/09/2010 12:04:18 AM
- 503 Views
A bar with limitless free whiskey where one is unable to become drunk.
02/09/2010 12:28:17 AM
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That's a great question, but I don't really think anything about it.
02/09/2010 02:39:35 AM
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I don't know but if they have 3G I will NB you a description when I get there *NM*
02/09/2010 03:40:04 AM
- 495 Views
If there is such a thing
02/09/2010 04:39:26 AM
- 1135 Views
No kidding.
02/09/2010 04:49:38 AM
- 952 Views
I agree
02/09/2010 05:03:32 AM
- 1019 Views
hmmm. although all that assumes a humanity of your soul in heaven.
02/09/2010 05:14:33 AM
- 793 Views
See - that's one of those personal things
02/09/2010 02:55:34 PM
- 1031 Views
*shrug* it doesn't mean you aren't you.
02/09/2010 03:26:56 PM
- 1059 Views
I liked Sartre's take on it. *NM*
02/09/2010 02:57:38 PM
- 499 Views
What is that? "Hell is other people at breakfast"? *NM*
02/09/2010 07:11:59 PM
- 463 Views
I'm not sure where the "at breakfast" comes from
02/09/2010 07:39:26 PM
- 782 Views
It has just been added on since then because it is so true and funny.
03/09/2010 05:16:43 AM
- 986 Views

Not simple, but I'll keep it very short
02/09/2010 03:42:29 PM
- 969 Views
so everyone goes to hell? *NM*
02/09/2010 04:33:05 PM
- 519 Views
That seems to be the conclusion if one agrees with my premises and line of thought, yes. *NM*
02/09/2010 04:43:34 PM
- 405 Views
hmm.
02/09/2010 05:23:23 PM
- 962 Views
That is what it should so...
02/09/2010 05:26:04 PM
- 863 Views
Unless... what if we offered something equally perfect and infinitely valuable to make it even?
17/09/2010 05:04:39 AM
- 940 Views
Eternal separation from the Creator. God'll give some what they wanted, but they won't like it. *NM*
03/09/2010 05:53:57 PM
- 600 Views
As far as Hell itself, this.
17/09/2010 05:08:02 AM
- 906 Views
Your God sounds like a sadist.
17/09/2010 05:12:17 AM
- 1156 Views
I have videoclips to answer that question.
27/09/2010 05:02:17 PM
- 1010 Views

You have reminded me why I need to see that film again
27/09/2010 05:55:13 PM
- 1048 Views
You could use at least one of the URLs in our link option, ya know?
28/09/2010 04:16:07 PM
- 939 Views
