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I'm not absolved of my obligations based on the bad behaviors of others. Sareitha Sedai Send a noteboard - 12/10/2010 08:25:33 PM
I am not trying to argue with just examining the issue. Like I said I don't know the answers the question and I think it is a very complicated issue.


It isn't complicated to me. Character isn't situationally dependent.

I could be argued that the people paying loans on home that is worth less than the value of the loan are being harmed. It could also be argued that the banks are fault for the current housing crisis so they were in effect harmed by the unethical behavior of the same organizations they are now being told they must behave in moral manner towards.


No, it really couldn't. They borrowed a certain amount of money and they are paying back that amount of money. No matter the value of the home they are paying on, the terms of the agreement have not changed, so they can't be any more or less harmful than the day they were signed. Should anyone who has paid off a mortgage above the amount that their home is currently worth be seeking a refund?

Or to be less wordy, the banks screwed things up now want everyone else to place nice and keep paying.


The banks didn't screw this up without quite a lot of help from their borrowers.





If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.

"The trophy problem has become extreme."
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Is walking away from a mortgage immoral? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 04:45:43 PM 1564 Views
Just as a contract is a two way street - SilverWarder - 12/10/2010 05:12:09 PM 1038 Views
do we have a moral obligation to society? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 06:00:17 PM 1026 Views
It's a good question SilverWarder - 14/10/2010 02:41:21 AM 935 Views
Sort of have to disagree... Antigone - 13/10/2010 02:52:07 AM 999 Views
That's not true actually SilverWarder - 14/10/2010 02:35:43 AM 931 Views
Of course it's immoral. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 05:13:16 PM 1009 Views
But does one sided morality work? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 05:38:56 PM 1120 Views
You asked about the morality of walking away when the borrower still has the ability to pay. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:31:10 PM 921 Views
A company or organization cannot act morally or immorally? I strongly disagree. *NM* Legolas - 12/10/2010 07:50:42 PM 452 Views
No, it cannot. However the individuals making the decisions for the company can. *NM* Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:48:23 PM 396 Views
If banks can not behave in moral manner why should people be expected to behave in moral manner? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:07:56 PM 983 Views
I'm not absolved of my obligations based on the bad behaviors of others. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:25:33 PM 903 Views
but who you owe obligations to is a factor random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:03:04 PM 962 Views
Because it's their moral obligation. Morality is not a trade, you act morally because it is right Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:47:41 PM 1099 Views
you also use reason and logic to decide where your loyalty rest random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:16:51 PM 1005 Views
You have not explained how it IS the banks' fault Cannoli - 15/10/2010 01:30:10 PM 1051 Views
That's the only kind of morality there is! What the hell is wrong with you? Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:15:55 PM 954 Views
nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM 938 Views
Re: nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again Cannoli - 15/10/2010 02:50:49 PM 1449 Views
well I really can't argue with the wrong is wrong end of story belief system random thoughts - 15/10/2010 05:40:22 PM 1139 Views
A contract isn't a promise; it's a legal agreement. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 06:25:24 PM 469 Views
Which is why contracts have to be pages and pages long and combed over by bloodsucking lawyers. LiterateDog - 12/10/2010 06:39:18 PM 977 Views
I would agree with you if contracts didn't provide for breaking them. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 07:33:15 PM 833 Views
Hrm. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:35:38 PM 1049 Views
did you take a personal oath in front of god and your loved ones to pay the loan back? *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:09:07 PM 466 Views
Let's assume we're talking about a marriage where no such oath was taken... *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:10:54 PM 479 Views
if there is no oath of fidelity then straying would not be immoral *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:40:53 PM 444 Views
It's not immoral to break the marriage contract. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 08:19:50 PM 1095 Views
I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:37:52 PM 1007 Views
Re: I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 09:00:00 PM 1092 Views
also random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:37:38 PM 949 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:38:06 PM 1085 Views
That must be why they have you sign something called an agreementory note *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:33:32 PM 489 Views
Exactly *NM* Cannoli - 12/10/2010 07:58:25 PM 454 Views
So, you think bankruptcy laws are immoral? everynametaken - 13/10/2010 12:18:43 AM 980 Views
I don't think it's immoral at all. The contract usually specifies penalties for breach. Tom - 12/10/2010 05:28:34 PM 1085 Views
I thought the answer might be something like that. *NM* Rebekah - 12/10/2010 05:35:35 PM 441 Views
that is close to the way I see it random thoughts - 12/10/2010 05:45:25 PM 936 Views
It's both legal and immoral. LiterateDog - 12/10/2010 06:37:49 PM 1008 Views
You didn't mention the third party Roland00 - 12/10/2010 08:26:56 PM 858 Views
in a way I did since I did mention society random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:54:07 PM 1010 Views
Thus the edit Roland00 - 12/10/2010 09:10:53 PM 1029 Views
either way I think you made a good point *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:38:58 PM 432 Views
will those neighbors... damookster - 14/10/2010 04:52:26 AM 1171 Views
All depends where you get your morals from, really. Nebhead - 12/10/2010 08:28:41 PM 1001 Views
I guess what i was trying to ask, at least in part random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:48:24 PM 1010 Views
What if you look at it from the other perspective? Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 09:00:20 PM 1034 Views
do you think they would if they had a legal way to do it? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 10:04:57 PM 984 Views
Good point. *NM* Tashmere - 12/10/2010 11:10:26 PM 453 Views
Sure, you could do that. Aeryn - 13/10/2010 01:54:55 AM 1029 Views
The problem is that you're buying something today and paying for it for the next 15/30/50 years. Sareitha Sedai - 13/10/2010 03:04:26 PM 917 Views
Much like the concept of morality itself. Gaps - 12/10/2010 11:47:23 PM 930 Views
I find this line particularly interesting. everynametaken - 13/10/2010 12:13:18 AM 969 Views
Dunno. nossy - 13/10/2010 12:56:56 AM 1070 Views
As a professional in financial services - no, it is not. Aeryn - 13/10/2010 01:44:18 AM 966 Views
but almost nobody sees it that way random thoughts - 13/10/2010 12:53:25 PM 966 Views
Is the deal that if you default, the bank gets the house and nothing else, though? Legolas - 13/10/2010 02:40:48 PM 956 Views
yes but the bank has a limited ability to collect random thoughts - 13/10/2010 02:47:34 PM 874 Views
I think it's morally wrong to walk away from credit card debt. *NM* Aeryn - 13/10/2010 09:43:11 PM 443 Views
I'm curious how you reconcile that Sareitha Sedai - 13/10/2010 09:47:59 PM 990 Views
Collateral Aeryn - 19/10/2010 07:21:14 PM 1484 Views
I agree, what do you think is different? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 09:59:36 PM 978 Views
The difference is that the bank owns the house. Whereas when I buy stuff, it's mine. *NM* Aeryn - 19/10/2010 07:05:34 PM 442 Views
I too am unable to work out what distinguishes the two situations. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:54:15 PM 923 Views
I lost sleep over it, but I did it anyway. John - 13/10/2010 05:24:19 AM 1059 Views
OK what if you take it a step further random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:44:30 PM 1069 Views
Good question John - 14/10/2010 05:13:41 AM 1034 Views
I have some questions about this issue. MightyYT - 13/10/2010 08:14:37 AM 985 Views
how do those questions affect the morality of the situation? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:20:14 PM 930 Views
Obviously, the essential difference is can't pay versus won't pay. Elaine - 13/10/2010 02:16:07 PM 950 Views
are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM 1007 Views
You are when said bank requires a bailout. And very many of them do. Elaine - 13/10/2010 03:22:59 PM 952 Views
it is the home fault that the banks have to be bailed out random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:49:37 PM 1000 Views
I believe it immoral to do harm. Macharius - 13/10/2010 04:38:28 PM 1018 Views
I really don't understand a system where this could be an advantage. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:16:57 PM 960 Views
There's generally something like a 7 or 10 year limit on credit reporting here. LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:46:58 PM 984 Views
What's the use of suing someone who has no money? *NM* Tim - 13/10/2010 11:48:47 PM 503 Views
You can garnish their wages. LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:49:36 PM 965 Views
With parsley? Rebekah - 13/10/2010 11:51:37 PM 1041 Views
No, "someone" most certainly did not, wicked young Miss! Hmph! *NM* LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:52:40 PM 490 Views
If they suddenly come into some, you're entitled to it. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 12:07:34 AM 566 Views
Bit of a long shot. *NM* Tim - 14/10/2010 12:09:12 AM 439 Views
Very. Best to cover your bases though. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 10:04:25 PM 456 Views
Not if the doctrine of election applies. Tim - 14/10/2010 10:14:07 PM 945 Views
Are we not talking about credit companies going after people who owe them money? TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 10:18:47 PM 986 Views
Yeah, I guess we are. Tim - 14/10/2010 10:28:40 PM 1015 Views
Re: Gaps - 14/10/2010 03:09:18 AM 989 Views
I am currently in that situation... damookster - 14/10/2010 05:03:23 AM 1088 Views
In Washington you can contest the assessed value used to determine property taxes. Vodalus - 14/10/2010 07:27:02 AM 1005 Views
Re: I am currently in that situation... Macharius - 14/10/2010 05:49:24 PM 1302 Views
it is easy for me and others to be glib when it is just a theory *NM* random thoughts - 14/10/2010 08:19:16 PM 444 Views
If you have the ability to pay, I would consider it yet another immoral act in an immoral industry. Joel - 14/10/2010 07:49:38 AM 1000 Views
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