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nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again random thoughts Send a noteboard - 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM

The banks will operate in what they consider their own best interest without regards to your wellbeing.

Your point being?


My point being why would yu not do what is in your best interest without regards to them? Are you a sheep that will alow his moral code to be used to lead him to slaughter without even questioning it?

I think is funny, just not in a haha sort of way, that you ask my point but then ignored it a couple of line down. The banks first obligationis to the shareholdres, shouldn't yours be to your family? Is it moral to let pride keep you from meeting that obligation by not doing what is in their best interest?

They will argue that their first obligation is to their stock holders.

Because it is true. That makes it a very good argument.


I owe no obligation to their stockholders. If they can do whatever is legal to advance their interest why should regular people feel a moral obligation to not do the same?

Wouldn't a lean holder’s first obligation be to their family? You did not enter a blood oath you enter a legal contract. A legal contract that leaves you the legal right to walk away at the cost of the home and your credit rating. Is it immoral to exercise that legal right?
Is it moral to murder someone as long as you are perfectly willing to serve the time? Penalties are not an alternative contract, they are a deterrant. It IS immoral (no one asked about legality here, and the article above appeared to be trying to differentiate between the two concepts & standards) to do something wrong, regardless of whether or not you accept the penalties. If the bank wanted your house, they'd buy it themselves rather than loaning the money out to you. And by not paying the interest, you are depriving the bank of their rightful recompense for the service they provided you (which is what interest is). You are morally NO different than the owner of a company who files for bankruptcy to avoid paying off his employees while still possessing the means to do so. In both cases, one party is avoiding the rightful payment for services rendered.


That is a stupid argument since murder is not legal.

Is it rational to act against your own best interest by behaving in a “moral” manner with and company that feels no obligations about treating you in a moral way or their own debts for that matter?
The actions of others have NO bearing on the morality of your own, except when you are reacting to an action that directly affects you. If they are attempting to defraud you that is one thing. Refusing to follow through on your end of a transaction is another entirely.


The actions of others do not affect my morality but they do affect how I act towards them. I believe in treating people with respect, until they disrespect me. If banks choose to do whatever is legal why would I not be willing to play by the rules they set?

I think there are some moral questions about what affect your actions have on society as a whole but I really don't think there are any good arguments that you have moral obligation towards the bank. I legal obligation but not a moral one.

If a bank has the ability to walk away from a huge amount of debt they would do so without thinking about. They do not feel constrained by any concept of a gentleman’s contract.
Bullshit speculation. The affirmation that someone MIGHT do something is not justification in the least, or else any sort of crime or injury could be excused as a preemptive redress. The bank could sieze your assets the same way, claiming that you intended to default.


And the bank would seize my assets if they thought doing so was in their best interest and they could legally do so. They would think they had a moral obligation to shareholders to do so. It is not bullshit speculation it is simple observations.
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Is walking away from a mortgage immoral? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 04:45:43 PM 1479 Views
Just as a contract is a two way street - SilverWarder - 12/10/2010 05:12:09 PM 983 Views
do we have a moral obligation to society? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 06:00:17 PM 972 Views
It's a good question SilverWarder - 14/10/2010 02:41:21 AM 880 Views
Sort of have to disagree... Antigone - 13/10/2010 02:52:07 AM 942 Views
That's not true actually SilverWarder - 14/10/2010 02:35:43 AM 872 Views
Of course it's immoral. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 05:13:16 PM 941 Views
But does one sided morality work? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 05:38:56 PM 1067 Views
You asked about the morality of walking away when the borrower still has the ability to pay. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:31:10 PM 865 Views
A company or organization cannot act morally or immorally? I strongly disagree. *NM* Legolas - 12/10/2010 07:50:42 PM 422 Views
No, it cannot. However the individuals making the decisions for the company can. *NM* Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:48:23 PM 370 Views
If banks can not behave in moral manner why should people be expected to behave in moral manner? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:07:56 PM 932 Views
I'm not absolved of my obligations based on the bad behaviors of others. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:25:33 PM 846 Views
but who you owe obligations to is a factor random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:03:04 PM 910 Views
Because it's their moral obligation. Morality is not a trade, you act morally because it is right Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:47:41 PM 1027 Views
you also use reason and logic to decide where your loyalty rest random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:16:51 PM 928 Views
You have not explained how it IS the banks' fault Cannoli - 15/10/2010 01:30:10 PM 977 Views
That's the only kind of morality there is! What the hell is wrong with you? Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:15:55 PM 889 Views
nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM 894 Views
Re: nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again Cannoli - 15/10/2010 02:50:49 PM 1389 Views
well I really can't argue with the wrong is wrong end of story belief system random thoughts - 15/10/2010 05:40:22 PM 1087 Views
A contract isn't a promise; it's a legal agreement. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 06:25:24 PM 442 Views
Which is why contracts have to be pages and pages long and combed over by bloodsucking lawyers. LiterateDog - 12/10/2010 06:39:18 PM 930 Views
I would agree with you if contracts didn't provide for breaking them. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 07:33:15 PM 778 Views
Hrm. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:35:38 PM 988 Views
did you take a personal oath in front of god and your loved ones to pay the loan back? *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:09:07 PM 439 Views
Let's assume we're talking about a marriage where no such oath was taken... *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:10:54 PM 453 Views
if there is no oath of fidelity then straying would not be immoral *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:40:53 PM 421 Views
It's not immoral to break the marriage contract. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 08:19:50 PM 1044 Views
I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:37:52 PM 954 Views
Re: I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 09:00:00 PM 1034 Views
also random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:37:38 PM 895 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:38:06 PM 1017 Views
That must be why they have you sign something called an agreementory note *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:33:32 PM 462 Views
Exactly *NM* Cannoli - 12/10/2010 07:58:25 PM 431 Views
So, you think bankruptcy laws are immoral? everynametaken - 13/10/2010 12:18:43 AM 924 Views
I don't think it's immoral at all. The contract usually specifies penalties for breach. Tom - 12/10/2010 05:28:34 PM 1033 Views
I thought the answer might be something like that. *NM* Rebekah - 12/10/2010 05:35:35 PM 412 Views
that is close to the way I see it random thoughts - 12/10/2010 05:45:25 PM 873 Views
It's both legal and immoral. LiterateDog - 12/10/2010 06:37:49 PM 958 Views
You didn't mention the third party Roland00 - 12/10/2010 08:26:56 PM 808 Views
in a way I did since I did mention society random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:54:07 PM 948 Views
Thus the edit Roland00 - 12/10/2010 09:10:53 PM 982 Views
either way I think you made a good point *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:38:58 PM 411 Views
will those neighbors... damookster - 14/10/2010 04:52:26 AM 1098 Views
All depends where you get your morals from, really. Nebhead - 12/10/2010 08:28:41 PM 941 Views
I guess what i was trying to ask, at least in part random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:48:24 PM 933 Views
What if you look at it from the other perspective? Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 09:00:20 PM 957 Views
do you think they would if they had a legal way to do it? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 10:04:57 PM 934 Views
Good point. *NM* Tashmere - 12/10/2010 11:10:26 PM 430 Views
Sure, you could do that. Aeryn - 13/10/2010 01:54:55 AM 965 Views
The problem is that you're buying something today and paying for it for the next 15/30/50 years. Sareitha Sedai - 13/10/2010 03:04:26 PM 842 Views
Much like the concept of morality itself. Gaps - 12/10/2010 11:47:23 PM 878 Views
I find this line particularly interesting. everynametaken - 13/10/2010 12:13:18 AM 905 Views
Dunno. nossy - 13/10/2010 12:56:56 AM 1001 Views
As a professional in financial services - no, it is not. Aeryn - 13/10/2010 01:44:18 AM 913 Views
but almost nobody sees it that way random thoughts - 13/10/2010 12:53:25 PM 903 Views
Is the deal that if you default, the bank gets the house and nothing else, though? Legolas - 13/10/2010 02:40:48 PM 898 Views
yes but the bank has a limited ability to collect random thoughts - 13/10/2010 02:47:34 PM 817 Views
I think it's morally wrong to walk away from credit card debt. *NM* Aeryn - 13/10/2010 09:43:11 PM 419 Views
I'm curious how you reconcile that Sareitha Sedai - 13/10/2010 09:47:59 PM 926 Views
Collateral Aeryn - 19/10/2010 07:21:14 PM 1427 Views
I agree, what do you think is different? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 09:59:36 PM 924 Views
The difference is that the bank owns the house. Whereas when I buy stuff, it's mine. *NM* Aeryn - 19/10/2010 07:05:34 PM 406 Views
I too am unable to work out what distinguishes the two situations. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:54:15 PM 862 Views
I lost sleep over it, but I did it anyway. John - 13/10/2010 05:24:19 AM 999 Views
OK what if you take it a step further random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:44:30 PM 974 Views
Good question John - 14/10/2010 05:13:41 AM 971 Views
I have some questions about this issue. MightyYT - 13/10/2010 08:14:37 AM 931 Views
how do those questions affect the morality of the situation? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:20:14 PM 872 Views
Obviously, the essential difference is can't pay versus won't pay. Elaine - 13/10/2010 02:16:07 PM 884 Views
are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM 954 Views
You are when said bank requires a bailout. And very many of them do. Elaine - 13/10/2010 03:22:59 PM 898 Views
it is the home fault that the banks have to be bailed out random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:49:37 PM 948 Views
I believe it immoral to do harm. Macharius - 13/10/2010 04:38:28 PM 972 Views
I really don't understand a system where this could be an advantage. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:16:57 PM 908 Views
There's generally something like a 7 or 10 year limit on credit reporting here. LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:46:58 PM 927 Views
What's the use of suing someone who has no money? *NM* Tim - 13/10/2010 11:48:47 PM 480 Views
You can garnish their wages. LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:49:36 PM 910 Views
With parsley? Rebekah - 13/10/2010 11:51:37 PM 969 Views
No, "someone" most certainly did not, wicked young Miss! Hmph! *NM* LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:52:40 PM 466 Views
If they suddenly come into some, you're entitled to it. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 12:07:34 AM 545 Views
Bit of a long shot. *NM* Tim - 14/10/2010 12:09:12 AM 410 Views
Very. Best to cover your bases though. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 10:04:25 PM 431 Views
Not if the doctrine of election applies. Tim - 14/10/2010 10:14:07 PM 881 Views
Are we not talking about credit companies going after people who owe them money? TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 10:18:47 PM 927 Views
Yeah, I guess we are. Tim - 14/10/2010 10:28:40 PM 961 Views
Re: Gaps - 14/10/2010 03:09:18 AM 918 Views
I am currently in that situation... damookster - 14/10/2010 05:03:23 AM 1026 Views
In Washington you can contest the assessed value used to determine property taxes. Vodalus - 14/10/2010 07:27:02 AM 951 Views
Re: I am currently in that situation... Macharius - 14/10/2010 05:49:24 PM 1244 Views
it is easy for me and others to be glib when it is just a theory *NM* random thoughts - 14/10/2010 08:19:16 PM 419 Views
If you have the ability to pay, I would consider it yet another immoral act in an immoral industry. Joel - 14/10/2010 07:49:38 AM 936 Views
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