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Even if we take that at face value, a law can still be unconstitutional. Joel Send a noteboard - 22/10/2010 03:19:07 AM
But they do become law.

And, once again, the SCOTUS does not seem to have even come close to ruling that if we sign a treaty with the UN revoking peoples freedom of religion, speech, assembly, right to due process--hell, you know the Bill of Rights; no knowledgeable rational person, including you, would seriously suggest the Supremacy Clause makes it constitutional for the Senate to ratify and the President sign a treaty revoking the Bill of Rights. However, if we're to have true separation of church and state (though the Treaty of Tripoli makes a different argument, one that doesn't necessarily state separation of church and state, but merely precludes America creation as a "Christian nation" ) officeholders in one can't be officeholders in the other, because there's a clear and automatic conflict, and if that denies all or part of the franchise or First Amendment rights, too bad.

Which is why the First Amendment doesn't state separation of church and state, it states that Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment or religion or restricting the free exercise thereof. The federal government can't take sides, but it's not obligated to remain oblivious, nor barred from utilizing religious resources at its disposal for civic services (the problem with Bushs faith based initiatives was that he clearly DID play favorites (and that he wanted to put undercover informants in congregations) not the initiatives themselves). I happen to support a LIMITED separation, but have no more patience with those offended by Presidents swearing on bibles than with those convinced Obama swore on the Koran. Two sides of the same coin, in my book, and not what I think the Framers had in mind.
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"Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?" - 20/10/2010 12:33:05 AM 802 Views
You don't want her? - 20/10/2010 01:21:20 AM 360 Views
I have decided for the first time in my life to not vote this year. - 20/10/2010 01:27:13 AM 244 Views
Now there's an answer - 20/10/2010 01:47:28 AM 341 Views
Voting isn't the only way to contribute *NM* - 20/10/2010 02:42:10 AM 104 Views
And most of those posts are a guess at best. - 20/10/2010 03:02:04 AM 221 Views
Maybe you shouldn't be guessing then? - 20/10/2010 06:00:02 AM 209 Views
Issac has a point. - 20/10/2010 02:14:28 AM 222 Views
Can you not spoil your ballot? - 20/10/2010 10:19:54 AM 203 Views
Depends where you live. - 20/10/2010 01:50:30 PM 249 Views
I don't think so but an intentional no vote is just as valid as voting IMHO. *NM* - 21/10/2010 02:45:35 AM 89 Views
The difference is when they look at statistics - 21/10/2010 10:49:48 AM 194 Views
Exactly. - 21/10/2010 02:02:46 PM 308 Views
When you don't vote the bad guys win. That simple. - 20/10/2010 01:53:23 PM 324 Views
An intentional NO vote is just as valid as voting. - 21/10/2010 02:46:58 AM 189 Views
Apart from the fact there's no record of it whatsoever, yes. - 21/10/2010 01:37:46 PM 205 Views
She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is... - 20/10/2010 01:25:43 AM 313 Views
Re: She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is... - 20/10/2010 01:35:48 AM 237 Views
Re: (meant to be under the main thread, but I can't move it) - 20/10/2010 02:42:23 AM 215 Views
It's a valid argument. - 21/10/2010 03:26:46 PM 191 Views
i feel kinda bad for her - 20/10/2010 03:31:03 AM 234 Views
What is odd about this is that everyone is used to the 'separation' idea that they don't bother to - 20/10/2010 06:44:48 AM 245 Views
Or, you know, the letters on the topic written by the people who drafted the Constitution *NM* - 20/10/2010 07:04:47 AM 131 Views
Those aren't the Constitution though. - 20/10/2010 12:39:41 PM 233 Views
which show they considered it but did not include it *NM* - 20/10/2010 06:14:37 PM 96 Views
Yep, this. *NM* - 20/10/2010 07:40:19 PM 117 Views
Personally, I think that's splitting hairs. *NM* - 20/10/2010 09:20:28 PM 95 Views
a direct reading is splitting hairs? - 20/10/2010 09:25:14 PM 195 Views
That's what lawyers like the Founding Fathers do. - 21/10/2010 02:56:36 PM 190 Views
I actually felt bad for her - 20/10/2010 10:46:57 AM 211 Views
She's right. - 20/10/2010 12:27:55 PM 340 Views
I'm less concerned about what she said than why she said it. *NM* - 20/10/2010 01:32:38 PM 187 Views
It is on youtube - 20/10/2010 02:40:12 PM 239 Views
Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:03:30 PM 244 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:32:02 PM 216 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:36:48 PM 191 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:53:46 PM 194 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 04:01:49 PM 280 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 05:12:28 PM 192 Views
Because she knew her audience, she expected them to know better, not be deliberately obtuse. - 21/10/2010 02:31:19 PM 218 Views
See Dreaded Anomaly's reply below. - 21/10/2010 03:03:02 PM 250 Views
Done. - 21/10/2010 04:50:52 PM 193 Views
Yet another reason you aren't a lawyer. *NM* - 21/10/2010 05:09:16 PM 76 Views
Because I don't accept arguments I consider unproven? - 21/10/2010 05:23:52 PM 250 Views
I see we have replaced the PDS with ODS - 20/10/2010 03:05:58 PM 192 Views
It only depends on just how finely one wants to split hairs. - 20/10/2010 04:02:28 PM 193 Views
no it depends how far you want to stretch the Constitution to say things it doesn't say - 20/10/2010 04:19:04 PM 191 Views
No it does not show that. - 21/10/2010 02:58:32 AM 186 Views
It doesn't matter what some of them may have wanted - 21/10/2010 02:54:54 PM 168 Views
Treaty of Tripoli through the Establishment clause fairly explicitly affirms this. Sorry. *NM* - 21/10/2010 03:56:09 AM 80 Views
OK which clause allows for amending the Constitution by treaty? I can't seem to find it *NM* - 21/10/2010 02:59:01 PM 77 Views
Supremacy clause, not establishment clause. My mistake. - 21/10/2010 05:07:18 PM 183 Views
Sorry, but the Treaty of Tripolis relevant section still seems like commentary. - 21/10/2010 05:18:00 PM 172 Views
This is quickly becoming infuriating. - 22/10/2010 01:41:18 AM 173 Views
No, it's part of the treaty. - 22/10/2010 02:02:42 AM 195 Views
Take it up with the Supremacy Clause. *NM* - 22/10/2010 02:12:11 AM 82 Views
So from 1797 we've been at "perpetual peace" with Libya? - 22/10/2010 02:25:44 AM 171 Views
Fair enough as regards the treaty being broken. - 22/10/2010 02:38:37 AM 172 Views
Seems to apply to the Tenth Amendment only, not the Constitution as a whole. - 22/10/2010 02:56:27 AM 208 Views
When a treaty is ratified by the senate, its provisions become federal law via a few processes. - 22/10/2010 03:02:24 AM 175 Views
Even if we take that at face value, a law can still be unconstitutional. - 22/10/2010 03:19:07 AM 209 Views
no your mistake was misreading the clause - 21/10/2010 05:48:52 PM 173 Views
Very difficult not to lose my temper here. - 22/10/2010 01:39:21 AM 189 Views
Then you should argue it violate a treaty with a country that no longer exist - 22/10/2010 02:03:32 PM 172 Views
Noticed that, too, did you? - 22/10/2010 08:40:09 PM 283 Views
She's so... bewildered! - 20/10/2010 06:40:04 PM 183 Views
that is what I think when I read a lot of the responses here - 20/10/2010 07:44:40 PM 186 Views
Because the logical conclusion is obvious. - 21/10/2010 03:08:39 AM 179 Views
I think it is logical that it means what is say not want some want it to say - 21/10/2010 03:02:08 PM 175 Views
Nonsense. The nature of the nation was already changing in the first generation. - 22/10/2010 12:35:26 AM 273 Views
but it is an impulse that should be limited - 22/10/2010 06:05:10 PM 173 Views
For those who think O'Donnell is correct, even on a technicality: - 20/10/2010 10:49:40 PM 223 Views
exactly - 21/10/2010 03:26:00 AM 214 Views
She started out alright - 21/10/2010 02:32:01 PM 175 Views
or she wasn't really paying attnetion to him and was still trying to argue her first point - 21/10/2010 03:24:06 PM 307 Views
Lol. Bush-League. - 21/10/2010 04:39:43 PM 166 Views
at leas thten the haters were hating someone who mattered *NM* - 21/10/2010 05:50:03 PM 82 Views

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