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Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen Send a noteboard - 23/01/2011 09:29:03 PM
Well, I think every time Fine Gael have been in government, it's been with Labour as a junior partner. This time there is the potential for Labour to get at least on a par with Fine Gael which might change their outlook if a coalition were to form. Also, they have been agreeing on very little recently, other than opposition to the current crowd.

Interesting. Are there many alternatives, though, considering that Fianna Fail almost certainly won't be available for the government?

I doubt there will be any alternative. Or at least i'd hope not, because that would mean Sinn fein in government.
Fine gael are probably more economically liberal, but socially conservative compared to Fianna Fail. They traditonally had a Christian ethos, as opposed to Fianna Fail's republicanism, and had their origins in the pro-treaty side in the irish civil war, while Fianna Fail came from the anti-treaty side.

Huh. Here was me thinking Fianna Fail had a Christian ethos - what with them having been dominant all along in the after all very Catholic Ireland, until fairly recently anyway.

True, the constitution was basically drafted by Eamonn De valera and a priest, whose name escapes me.
And as for "more economically liberal", that's a rather ambiguous statement on an international website. :P Should I interpret that as more left-wing or more right-wing?

Minimal government interference type. So I guess that's right wing liberal.
For some reason I had them in my mind as being roughly similar to the German situation - Fine Gael as more right-wing economically but socially progressive, Fianna Fail the reverse. But I see I've got it almost entirely the wrong way around, then.

Fine Gael are affiliated with the European People's Party, and Fianna Fail with the European Liberal Democratic and reform Party, if that clears much up for you.
He's the president of Sinn fein for both parts. It's the one party. He's technically an MP but has never taken his seat, in line with the Sinn Fein policy. He was an MLA until last year, I believe. He's going to be running for the Dail in this election.

So is he an Irish citizen or a British one? How he can be a British MP, absentionist or not, if he's an Irish citizen, and vice versa? This is very confusing. :P

People from Northern Ireland can claim dual nationality. It's part of one of the peace treaty things. As he's from Belfast he can claim both nationalities.
That does seem like a difficult situation. Is there much a middle ground between any of the Flemish and Francophone parties other than the largest two? And where do the German speakers fit into that whole configuration?

There are, I can never remember, somewhere between 40,000 and 70,000 German speakers in Belgium, out of a total population of about eleven million now. Suffice to say, our trilinguality is mostly just a technicality - they're still busy with the process of translating old laws to German, as they'd never gotten around to that before. Still, the German speakers are doing their best to maximize their influence, both by trying to mediate in the current crisis (by virtue of being culturally closer to the Flemish, while living in Wallonia), and by making futile attempts to become a full-fletched fourth region.

As for middle ground, truth be told, not that much, or at least not on the issues at stake. Flemish parties are far more right-wing as a whole. Each party other than the nationalist ones does have a counterpart on the other side of the language border - until the 1960s we had nation-wide parties, but they all split along language lines - but those have been diverging more and more. The Flemish socialists are quite sick of being the victim of the Flemish voters' desire to express their dislike of the Francophone socialists in the only way they can, for instance. The Greens have made valiant attempts throughout this crisis to profile themselves as the only "political family" in which the two parties are on good terms and agree on most things, but even they fundamentally disagree on the big issues causing the political deadlock.

I'm not sure this is even making much sense to you - it really would take a few hours' worth of infodumping to make any outsider understand matters completely, I think.

Yes, my Wikipedia searching has left me somewhat dumb founded.
"I mean, if everyone had a soul, there would be no contrast by which we could appreciate it. For giving us this perspective, we thank you." - Nate
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So the Irish government has basically imploded. Stephen - 23/01/2011 04:47:10 PM 1698 Views
I am now confused Camilla - 23/01/2011 05:34:31 PM 1054 Views
You won't be the only person Stephen - 23/01/2011 06:21:23 PM 964 Views
You do realize Britain is pretty much the envy of the Western world at the moment? Legolas - 23/01/2011 06:27:05 PM 1087 Views
Re: You do realize Britain is pretty much the envy of the Western world at the moment? Camilla - 23/01/2011 06:34:47 PM 1018 Views
I did. There was more violence than in ours, that's true (ours have none so far, knock on wood). Legolas - 23/01/2011 06:41:34 PM 994 Views
Re: I did. There was more violence than in ours, that's true (ours have none so far, knock on wood). Camilla - 23/01/2011 06:43:41 PM 939 Views
Those protests were only violent by British standards. Tim - 23/01/2011 11:54:15 PM 1079 Views
Really? Camilla - 24/01/2011 12:03:38 AM 913 Views
But... Wibble - 24/01/2011 07:28:17 PM 981 Views
Re: But... Camilla - 24/01/2011 07:30:39 PM 1226 Views
What protests? Wibble - 24/01/2011 07:26:49 PM 1064 Views
Re: What protests? Camilla - 24/01/2011 07:28:40 PM 913 Views
Re: What protests? Nebhead - 25/01/2011 09:23:17 AM 1055 Views
There's a new objection Camilla - 25/01/2011 11:38:25 AM 976 Views
I didn't object... Nebhead - 25/01/2011 11:47:11 AM 864 Views
Re: I didn't object... Camilla - 25/01/2011 11:49:36 AM 830 Views
If you look at the bottom of that list... Nebhead - 25/01/2011 11:58:24 AM 912 Views
And Britain had to live with the Conservative Wilderness for 15 years before it could get there *NM* Roland00 - 24/01/2011 02:43:16 AM 500 Views
Should I start chiming in on Norwegian politics now that I'm here...? Joel - 24/01/2011 12:42:03 AM 949 Views
Why not? Camilla - 24/01/2011 08:49:07 AM 1017 Views
'Cos I doubt you'll like what I have to say, for one thing. Joel - 26/01/2011 01:55:13 AM 1037 Views
Re: 'Cos I doubt you'll like what I have to say, for one thing. Camilla - 26/01/2011 08:42:04 AM 1059 Views
I misconstrued your sarcasm, sorry. Joel - 26/01/2011 10:23:40 AM 1210 Views
That's been a while coming, hasn't it? Cowen seems to be losing it. Legolas - 23/01/2011 05:48:30 PM 991 Views
Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen - 23/01/2011 06:27:27 PM 1055 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Legolas - 23/01/2011 06:33:26 PM 1005 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen - 23/01/2011 07:19:03 PM 1102 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Legolas - 23/01/2011 07:57:05 PM 952 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen - 23/01/2011 09:29:03 PM 1057 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Legolas - 23/01/2011 09:46:20 PM 1015 Views
I think Adams is an Irish citizen, and not a British one. Tim - 23/01/2011 11:45:34 PM 978 Views
Re: I think Adams is an Irish citizen, and not a British one. Stephen - 23/01/2011 11:53:12 PM 972 Views
The part that I find strange is... Tim - 23/01/2011 11:58:27 PM 950 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen - 23/01/2011 11:45:39 PM 849 Views
I found out something else today which makes it even better. Tim - 24/01/2011 10:37:45 PM 1149 Views
I was reading your post and going "what about the Chiltern Hundreds"? Legolas - 24/01/2011 10:44:32 PM 966 Views
Today's news: it got better again! Tim - 26/01/2011 07:51:51 PM 1029 Views
Oh, alternatively we could elevate him to the House of Lords. Tim - 26/01/2011 11:08:44 PM 987 Views
Awesome idea. Something like "Baron Adams of Londonderry", I'm thinking. *NM* Legolas - 27/01/2011 07:54:26 PM 482 Views
We made his arch-rival a Lord, after all, so it would only be fair. Tim - 28/01/2011 08:26:15 AM 928 Views
"This is the voice of a life peer" Michael - 28/01/2011 02:18:04 PM 1050 Views
Here you go Elaine - 25/01/2011 12:55:33 PM 1081 Views
That's the site I found too. Tim - 25/01/2011 01:25:56 PM 922 Views
Right. Elaine - 25/01/2011 01:42:49 PM 1155 Views
well, the only interesting thing in swedish politics is a wikileaks document and the reactions... jh - 23/01/2011 06:21:00 PM 1041 Views
That's interesting Stephen - 23/01/2011 06:32:05 PM 1007 Views
What is inappropriate about trying to keep out barbaric unskilled people? Tom - 23/01/2011 10:59:53 PM 1013 Views
The inappropriateness is the generalisation in the claim Camilla - 23/01/2011 11:16:52 PM 979 Views
Generalizations are inappropriate when they are disproven by statistics, and appropriate when proven Tom - 24/01/2011 07:33:14 PM 936 Views
I've looked into the statistics a bit more. Tom - 24/01/2011 09:11:52 PM 954 Views
I take it you're talking about the Middle East in its most narrow sense here. Legolas - 24/01/2011 09:56:22 PM 982 Views
... the fact that they are asylum seekers, and their skill certainly shouldn't matter in that case. jh - 24/01/2011 07:08:14 PM 875 Views
Schweden schafft sich ab, eh? Tom - 24/01/2011 07:31:33 PM 1142 Views
Not to mention... ßelals Girl - 26/01/2011 07:55:26 PM 868 Views
ßelals Girl - 26/01/2011 07:46:19 PM 985 Views
Hopefully they'll stop using Irish officially as a way to cut down on unnecessary costs. Tom - 23/01/2011 10:57:08 PM 932 Views
I'd support that Stephen - 23/01/2011 11:26:20 PM 1003 Views
Ironically, if you de-officialised Irish you could get EU money to help preserve it. Tim - 23/01/2011 11:48:14 PM 905 Views
I never realised that Stephen - 23/01/2011 11:54:43 PM 930 Views
But why, why? Tom - 24/01/2011 08:35:43 PM 893 Views
Because it's the only thing justifying their insistence they're not British? Legolas - 24/01/2011 10:03:54 PM 946 Views
But all language learning should be purely voluntary (after what parents teach their children). Tom - 25/01/2011 03:05:28 AM 923 Views
What, so you don't think students in high school should be taught foreign languages? Legolas - 25/01/2011 06:34:21 PM 953 Views
Irish is the mother tongue of about 7,000-15,000 people at most. Tom - 26/01/2011 05:04:00 AM 986 Views
Wikipedia says it's more like 40k-80k. Legolas - 26/01/2011 06:41:41 PM 1354 Views
And Elaine, Stephen, or any other Irish people here: do feel free to comment. *NM* Legolas - 26/01/2011 06:42:36 PM 482 Views
Inflated statistics from what I've read. Tom - 26/01/2011 09:45:51 PM 897 Views
They might be, indeed. Elaine - 27/01/2011 01:08:09 PM 1140 Views
More to the point, are YOU interested in learning Irish? Tom - 26/01/2011 05:15:18 AM 895 Views
Calling Ireland the new Sodom and Gomorrah, are you? Legolas - 26/01/2011 06:02:05 PM 1041 Views
I don't think it's as fun as Sodom and Gomorrah, at least not post-crisis. Tom - 26/01/2011 09:48:54 PM 994 Views
Re: I don't think it's as fun as Sodom and Gomorrah, at least not post-crisis. Legolas - 27/01/2011 08:42:21 PM 880 Views
Presumably because they agree with J.R.R. Tolkien and Tómas Sæmundsson about language's importance. Tim - 24/01/2011 10:16:05 PM 1037 Views
So Australians and New Zealanders are really English then? Austrians are just Germans? Tom - 25/01/2011 03:01:14 AM 995 Views
I never said I agreed . Tim - 25/01/2011 08:19:11 AM 959 Views
I would suggest that a distinct dialect does the job just as well majander - 25/01/2011 02:23:59 PM 993 Views
That's a very good point. Tom - 26/01/2011 05:06:32 AM 963 Views
Indeed. Legolas - 26/01/2011 06:06:00 PM 1022 Views
The thing is, people who feel really strongly about that usually insist it's a separate language. Tim - 28/01/2011 04:20:57 PM 850 Views
It's really more about having a unique silly costume to wear at Miss Universe pageants. Tom - 26/01/2011 05:09:10 AM 834 Views
You're confusing what we sell to gullible American tourists with what we actually value . *NM* Tim - 28/01/2011 04:15:01 PM 426 Views
What the hell happened to the Celtic Tiger Country? *NM* Blaine - 24/01/2011 05:47:12 AM 554 Views
Thrown away on bling and tat, unfortunately. Elaine - 24/01/2011 01:01:27 PM 862 Views
The Celtic Tiger is dead, Ireland had a GDP contraction of 14% in the last two years. Roland00 - 24/01/2011 01:47:06 PM 949 Views
It's still there, but it aimed a bit too high and got a bit scorched. Legolas - 24/01/2011 10:07:36 PM 838 Views
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