I understand your concerns, actually. I think they're valid ones. I just think that Hell is a more valid concern. 
My universalism is more a very firm faith that God will work it all out, somehow. Or rather, God will let us work it out somehow; I very much believe in grace as God enabling us to do things ourselves. There's an important distinction there.

My universalism is more a very firm faith that God will work it all out, somehow. Or rather, God will let us work it out somehow; I very much believe in grace as God enabling us to do things ourselves. There's an important distinction there.
Well, yes, God HAS worked it out, somehow; I just went over that.
But Grace isn't entirely about what we accomplish, using Gods gifts or otherwise, and it's vitally important to realize that while that's no license to sin, it's still first and foremost a God centered thing. We're offered salvation by Grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, "it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them". God lets us accept His Grace, but He also lets us refuse it; to do otherwise would be tyrannical, which God is not. Confronting us with our need for Him in this world or another very much forces the issue; at that point whether Hell exists in any sense is largely irrelevant, because we face the undeniable fact that we depend upon God for our very existence, both its inception and its continuance. It's possible, automatic, I think, to then choose God, but for our own sake, not His, which is the wrong motive, because that's once again human oriented rather than God oriented.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 28/01/2011 at 10:41:44 PM
Ted Haggard Would Be Bisexual If He Was a Hot 21-Year-Old
- 27/01/2011 05:01:12 PM
1481 Views
Not sure what the point of this post was *NM*
- 27/01/2011 06:50:59 PM
581 Views
It was something that made me laugh?
- 27/01/2011 06:53:09 PM
990 Views
yeah you were only insulting people's religion, no reason to get worked up. *NM*
- 27/01/2011 09:24:55 PM
576 Views
Er, pretty sure just laughing at what one guy said, plus a pun on the word "hard"
- 27/01/2011 09:40:29 PM
922 Views
I am an athiest so I don't care
- 27/01/2011 10:10:26 PM
994 Views
Or he'd still be closeted because of twisted, hateful strains of Christianity. *NM*
- 27/01/2011 06:56:04 PM
475 Views
If your religion states homosexuality is wrong, then it is a position of principle...
- 27/01/2011 06:59:04 PM
1087 Views
Wow, you really don't understand what it is to be human
- 27/01/2011 08:51:17 PM
975 Views
I'm sure you'll agree that a religious debate is not really called for here...
- 27/01/2011 09:10:38 PM
1022 Views
Homosexuality =/= homosexual sex.
- 27/01/2011 09:16:50 PM
936 Views
Err...no.
- 27/01/2011 09:23:54 PM
1190 Views
Re: Err...no.
- 27/01/2011 09:42:00 PM
1124 Views
You seem to want to argue about what is allowed and what is not allowed...
- 27/01/2011 10:08:10 PM
1003 Views
Nah, I know better than to argue with you. I just thought your phrasing was rather silly.
- 27/01/2011 10:14:50 PM
908 Views
I completely and utterly disagree
- 27/01/2011 10:39:10 PM
943 Views
The carnal nature of the flesh just happens to be the way we're all innately broken.
- 27/01/2011 11:30:09 PM
1113 Views
Replace "Christian Faith" with "hardcore Calvinism" and I'll go away.
- 28/01/2011 12:35:36 AM
909 Views
Is it possible to have faith, but not agree with your church's stance on subjects?. *NM*
- 27/01/2011 09:15:14 PM
516 Views
Of course. Faith is a broad concept. But...
- 27/01/2011 09:20:54 PM
1107 Views
I was thinking along the lines of Christans who are gay or or believe in gay rights.
- 27/01/2011 09:29:50 PM
968 Views
Well, at least you're not disputing the nature of my claim.
- 27/01/2011 10:23:24 PM
951 Views
I thought acceptance meant rejecting anything with which you're uncomfortable?
- 27/01/2011 11:39:48 PM
1081 Views
- 27/01/2011 11:39:48 PM
1081 Views
Don't even know what that means.
- 28/01/2011 12:31:23 AM
847 Views
- 28/01/2011 12:31:23 AM
847 Views
Actually, that first line is my problem with Universalism
- 28/01/2011 01:54:00 AM
1060 Views
"Carnal flesh" is redundant, you know.
- 28/01/2011 04:27:30 AM
935 Views
- 28/01/2011 04:27:30 AM
935 Views
Point of emphasis.
- 28/01/2011 05:52:28 AM
1044 Views
- 28/01/2011 05:52:28 AM
1044 Views
Agreed.
*NM*
- 28/01/2011 06:33:55 AM
507 Views
*NM*
- 28/01/2011 06:33:55 AM
507 Views
Then I'm confused, either about what you believe or how you reconcile it with my second paragraph.
- 28/01/2011 10:54:13 PM
1140 Views
At the risk of simplifying: All roads don't lead to Cleveland, nor do they lead to God.
- 01/02/2011 03:47:57 PM
1195 Views
...I can't believe of the three posts, this is the only one with replies
- 27/01/2011 09:48:14 PM
863 Views
It is nothing new, there are always people "who protest too much"
- 27/01/2011 10:26:49 PM
948 Views
This guy needs serious mental help, in my humble laymans opinion.
- 27/01/2011 11:42:00 PM
945 Views

