While I can accept peoples' problems with the speakers...
Tom Send a noteboard - 13/03/2011 05:19:50 PM
...why yell insults at families bringing their children to a charity fundraiser?
I'm also uncomfortable calling Siraj Wahhaj a "former Nation of Islam" member without qualifying that statement by saying he renounced the Nation of Islam and broke with them very vocally. It doesn't look like Wahhaj has done much beyond being called an unindicted co-conspirator of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing by unspecified sources. In the absence of more information we should be careful about those sorts of statements because it could be like calling Sarah Palin an "unindicted co-conspirator" in the Giffords shooting for her crosshairs map. Without knowing the context you don't know how closely related he was to the bombing, if at all.
If there is more evidence against Wahhaj, then I could understand protesting him. Based on what I can tell about Amir Abdel Malik Ali, he does sound like a potential radical.
But then why not protest those individuals only? I think that it's indefensible to yell at people coming with their families to support a charity fundraiser that their religion is a fraud or ask if they don't want to go home and beat their wives. If you have strong feelings about Islam as a religion you're free to express them, and it's protected free speech in the US, but is there a need to go out of your way to say that to people, especially when they're there with their children?
I agree that there was probably a lot more to things than what we see on the video presented. Yes, the actual rally was far earlier than the late night footage. Yes, the video was probably spliced. I'm sure that there is a lot more information to look at. I still don't see why people were verbally assaulted like that just for attending a charity event.
I'm also uncomfortable calling Siraj Wahhaj a "former Nation of Islam" member without qualifying that statement by saying he renounced the Nation of Islam and broke with them very vocally. It doesn't look like Wahhaj has done much beyond being called an unindicted co-conspirator of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing by unspecified sources. In the absence of more information we should be careful about those sorts of statements because it could be like calling Sarah Palin an "unindicted co-conspirator" in the Giffords shooting for her crosshairs map. Without knowing the context you don't know how closely related he was to the bombing, if at all.
If there is more evidence against Wahhaj, then I could understand protesting him. Based on what I can tell about Amir Abdel Malik Ali, he does sound like a potential radical.
But then why not protest those individuals only? I think that it's indefensible to yell at people coming with their families to support a charity fundraiser that their religion is a fraud or ask if they don't want to go home and beat their wives. If you have strong feelings about Islam as a religion you're free to express them, and it's protected free speech in the US, but is there a need to go out of your way to say that to people, especially when they're there with their children?
I agree that there was probably a lot more to things than what we see on the video presented. Yes, the actual rally was far earlier than the late night footage. Yes, the video was probably spliced. I'm sure that there is a lot more information to look at. I still don't see why people were verbally assaulted like that just for attending a charity event.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ignorance and hate in orange county, california
- 13/03/2011 07:05:33 AM
1532 Views
actually it wasnt at an Islamic Center, It was a city center rented out by muslims for the night
- 13/03/2011 08:29:10 AM
1142 Views
since you are OK with judging all Tea Part memebers by the actions of a few
- 13/03/2011 01:03:42 PM
999 Views
The problem with that is that Muslims aren't electing terrorists to city councils or Congress.
- 13/03/2011 08:13:38 PM
935 Views
and you believe the Tea Party is electing terrorist to office?
- 14/03/2011 03:17:49 PM
946 Views
"I know quite a few Marines who will be very happy to help these terrorists to paradise".
- 14/03/2011 07:17:02 PM
985 Views
which terrorist was she talking about? You don't even have context just a propaganda video
- 14/03/2011 09:13:22 PM
1058 Views
That she directed it toward the whole event rather than specific people is the whole problem.
- 14/03/2011 09:53:29 PM
899 Views
really? you have unedited video of her doing that?
- 14/03/2011 11:01:57 PM
1039 Views
She said, "what's going on over there is PURE UNADULTERATED evil".
- 15/03/2011 12:21:16 AM
988 Views
you sure seem to know alot about what she meant from just hearing two clips out of context
- 15/03/2011 02:47:44 PM
946 Views
No, I'm just not being obtuse about her clear meaning because she's on "my side".
- 15/03/2011 08:39:21 PM
985 Views
You could see where she was pointing? All I saw were flags
- 15/03/2011 08:45:02 PM
977 Views
Ooooh, she was pointing out her fellow flag waving REPUBLICANS are terrorists.
- 15/03/2011 09:01:13 PM
1046 Views
- 15/03/2011 09:01:13 PM
1046 Views
and you know her well enough to know what she is saying
- 15/03/2011 09:37:16 PM
1191 Views
I know ENGLISH well enough to know what she's saying; you're the only who thinks WHO said it matters
- 15/03/2011 10:54:04 PM
1193 Views
I have to ask. Is this actually real? *NM*
- 13/03/2011 12:36:50 PM
478 Views
Somewhat
- 13/03/2011 04:05:14 PM
1081 Views
While I can accept peoples' problems with the speakers...
- 13/03/2011 05:19:50 PM
1045 Views
and then there are the biased idiots who only need a video of few people chanting
- 13/03/2011 01:02:07 PM
1162 Views
A very small number of people who happen to include elected leaders.
- 13/03/2011 08:42:37 PM
1063 Views
How many elected officals were there shouting at people as they entered the event?
- 14/03/2011 04:22:34 PM
1003 Views
Three, by my count.
- 14/03/2011 06:02:06 PM
1000 Views
yes but since you are just making it that doesn't really count
- 14/03/2011 06:30:24 PM
1022 Views
Folks on "my side" don't suggest US Marines murder people on yours; why does who tallies matter?
- 14/03/2011 07:25:12 PM
999 Views
no folk on your side try to firebomb political conventions and then claim they are vicitims
- 14/03/2011 09:02:27 PM
853 Views
I'm aware of no such case, let alone people being elected to Congress for doing it.
- 14/03/2011 10:19:53 PM
1104 Views
if you have evidience he supported verbal assults you should post it
- 14/03/2011 11:03:19 PM
975 Views
He MADE verbal assaults, and video of it was posted at the start of the thread.
- 15/03/2011 12:23:12 AM
942 Views
why is it hard to grasp the "destrtoying America" is a common phrase used by boht sides
- 15/03/2011 02:53:29 PM
1083 Views
Yeah, but people shouldn't be paying their elected officials to (literally) subject them to it.
- 15/03/2011 08:39:05 PM
1013 Views
oh and here is the film making them victims being celibrated by Variety
- 14/03/2011 11:10:00 PM
1108 Views
Funny how they got ARRESTED instead of elected to public office.
- 15/03/2011 12:25:17 AM
994 Views
and now the left is trying to tuen them into martyrs, which was my point. What was yours?
- 15/03/2011 02:57:04 PM
998 Views
Doesn't seem like "the left" is trying to turn them into martyrs, let alone electing them to office.
- 15/03/2011 08:39:12 PM
1287 Views
the little piece of propeganda is likely to win SXSW film festival
- 15/03/2011 09:31:22 PM
948 Views
Which proves many people find sensationalized violence entertaining, and that Austinites are idiots.
- 15/03/2011 10:52:19 PM
1086 Views
More than anything it seems like America is importing the "no good guys here" phenomenon.
- 13/03/2011 08:41:07 PM
972 Views
Re: ignorance and hate in orange county, california
- 13/03/2011 10:05:40 PM
965 Views
The Tea Party sponsored the event where people they elected said that stuff.
- 14/03/2011 07:42:29 PM
1159 Views
do you believe there is single group the Tea Party?
- 14/03/2011 09:03:10 PM
982 Views
I believe a majority elected public officials encouraging violence against their own constituents.
- 14/03/2011 10:12:59 PM
1070 Views
I thought you needed proof before accussing someone of a crime
- 14/03/2011 11:04:05 PM
1061 Views
Whether or not this reaches the level of criminality is a good question.
- 15/03/2011 12:36:40 AM
1230 Views
yes but first you will have to prove she in inciting violience
- 15/03/2011 07:55:47 PM
1000 Views
She wants the Marines to assist US citizens to paradise; I think it's proven.
- 15/03/2011 08:39:29 PM
943 Views
no Joel isn't proven and if you think it is you need to look up what the proof means
- 15/03/2011 09:36:32 PM
949 Views
"Those terrorists" was a blanket statement directed at the people attending the fundraiser.
- 15/03/2011 10:52:51 PM
1136 Views
prove it
- 16/03/2011 01:12:55 AM
1109 Views
So we're back to "prove what you've already proven multiple times" again; fine, I'm done then.
- 16/03/2011 02:16:35 AM
1016 Views
Is it acceptable....
- 14/03/2011 03:52:14 PM
953 Views
Elected officials shouldn't suggest the US Marines murder US citizens.
- 14/03/2011 07:39:42 PM
1006 Views
I agree but do have an example of that happening or are you just twisiting what was said there?
- 14/03/2011 09:12:10 PM
1003 Views
Dude, I QUOTED an example in my above response to you.
- 14/03/2011 10:11:02 PM
972 Views
You have one line tyaken out of context and even then you are spinning it
- 14/03/2011 11:04:38 PM
857 Views
No, just quoting it.
- 15/03/2011 12:42:31 AM
952 Views
so you are just going to ignore the edit and belive what you want to believe
- 15/03/2011 02:58:36 PM
975 Views
I believe what I saw and heard; why can't you?
- 15/03/2011 08:55:45 PM
1018 Views
you saw and herd a few sentences taken out of context
- 15/03/2011 09:29:55 PM
864 Views
You think that speech gets better if we listen to all of it?
- 15/03/2011 10:53:55 PM
1119 Views
no Joel you don't know Jack shit about what she said
- 16/03/2011 01:21:47 AM
1197 Views
She said what she said, whether or not you want to believe your eyes and ears.
- 16/03/2011 02:16:59 AM
900 Views
Simmer down
- 14/03/2011 09:50:05 PM
1003 Views
Well, if you aren't trying to equate them even the dubious "two wrongs make a right" defense fails.
- 14/03/2011 10:01:57 PM
1003 Views
no different than using a quote out of context
- 14/03/2011 08:25:22 PM
1032 Views
Too clarify...
- 14/03/2011 08:40:19 PM
987 Views

*NM*