Active Users:622 Time:19/12/2025 09:08:40 AM
Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. Joel Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 10:23:02 AM
This is something that started bugging me after a random association yesterday. John the Baptist. On whose authority was he baptising people? No one had died for people's sins yet. From what I understand baptism functions in connection with that. Have I misunderstood something?

And why did Jesus need to be baptised?
I am genuinely curious about the doctrinal reasoning here. It has been a while since I studied these things and for the life of me I cannot remember anything about it. I know that there were several Jewish groups that practised baptism at the time, but I do not know the intra-Christian reasoning for this event.

You may be aware that, according to Matthew, John the Baptist himself raised the precise question you have: Why did Jesus need to be baptized? The short answer is that He didn't, but that He chose to do so as He chose to many thing to provide a righteous model for His subsequent followers. Baptism initiates the commitment to Christianity that many denominations complete with confirmation. That it IS a commitment is why many Christian denominations (most famously the Baptists) don't condone infant baptism; IMHO, it suffers the dual liabilities of being both presumptuous and pointless, no more meaningful than taking a national oath of allegiance on behalf of ones infant child. Baptism's predicated on repentance of sin and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior from it, but it's not like those who do those things yet never have the opportunity for baptism are denied salvation. Christ told one of the thieves crucified beside Him he would be with Him in paradise, and I'm pretty sure no one baptized him in the interim. ;)

As far as Johns authority to baptize, it comes in two parts: First, ritual purification by washing is part of Jewish tradition at least as far back as Moses (IIRC washing before every meal is part of the Torah for reasons more obvious now than they were then). Additionally, Johns particular commission to baptize was in anticipation and on behalf of the Messiah Whose coming he preached; in essence, he baptized people for both their present repentance and future faith in a Savior not yet revealed, but imminent.

EDIT: Y'know, displaying this thread in a paged format could have saved me the trouble of making this post (which reiterates points various knowledgeable people had already made) and let me go straight to the more narrowly focused ones I made elsewhere (without the need to make three posts instead of one). Not a criticism, just an observation. ;)
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
There's a source that resolves a surprisingly large number of misconceptions about Christianity.
This message last edited by Joel on 11/06/2011 at 11:00:04 AM
Reply to message
A question on baptism - 10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM 986 Views
To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection. - 10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM 747 Views
What I meant - 10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM 578 Views
I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM 561 Views
Re: I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM 642 Views
I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM 579 Views
Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM 539 Views
You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM 578 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM 515 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM 578 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM 549 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM 705 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM 546 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM 768 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM 752 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM 555 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM 579 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:33:01 PM 444 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:34:36 PM 512 Views
I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM 653 Views
Re: I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:54:17 AM 701 Views
He dances and dips in The Ganges- Very Nice. *NM* - 11/06/2011 02:15:41 AM 243 Views
Three dips - that's the ceremony. - 11/06/2011 02:35:43 AM 505 Views
Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity - 10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM 675 Views
Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason - 10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM 621 Views
I misunderstood, lets try again - 10/06/2011 01:44:43 PM 708 Views
Huh. *NM* - 10/06/2011 02:06:58 PM 287 Views
A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM 750 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:15:07 PM 736 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:19:25 PM 644 Views
Do you want a theological answer or a historical one? - 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM 729 Views
The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical - 10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM 583 Views
My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water - 10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM 671 Views
That is absurd. - 10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM 764 Views
It is absurd - 10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM 589 Views
When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move. - 10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM 696 Views
Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water" - 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM 550 Views
The point is that it's a symbol. - 11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM 556 Views
I have no problem with water as a symbol - 11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM 632 Views
You are totally missing the point. - 11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM 711 Views
Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense - 11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM 689 Views
your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion - 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM 941 Views
I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean" - 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM 576 Views
Beliefs about holy water are internally logical. - 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM 626 Views
Shrug. It was on topic. - 11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM 894 Views
Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 10:23:02 AM 759 Views
Re: Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 11:51:22 AM 748 Views
I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM 264 Views
Because we are all nuts in our own special ways? *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:36:03 PM 232 Views

Reply to Message