Active Users:328 Time:02/07/2025 06:43:58 AM
Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. Joel Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 10:23:02 AM
This is something that started bugging me after a random association yesterday. John the Baptist. On whose authority was he baptising people? No one had died for people's sins yet. From what I understand baptism functions in connection with that. Have I misunderstood something?

And why did Jesus need to be baptised?
I am genuinely curious about the doctrinal reasoning here. It has been a while since I studied these things and for the life of me I cannot remember anything about it. I know that there were several Jewish groups that practised baptism at the time, but I do not know the intra-Christian reasoning for this event.

You may be aware that, according to Matthew, John the Baptist himself raised the precise question you have: Why did Jesus need to be baptized? The short answer is that He didn't, but that He chose to do so as He chose to many thing to provide a righteous model for His subsequent followers. Baptism initiates the commitment to Christianity that many denominations complete with confirmation. That it IS a commitment is why many Christian denominations (most famously the Baptists) don't condone infant baptism; IMHO, it suffers the dual liabilities of being both presumptuous and pointless, no more meaningful than taking a national oath of allegiance on behalf of ones infant child. Baptism's predicated on repentance of sin and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior from it, but it's not like those who do those things yet never have the opportunity for baptism are denied salvation. Christ told one of the thieves crucified beside Him he would be with Him in paradise, and I'm pretty sure no one baptized him in the interim. ;)

As far as Johns authority to baptize, it comes in two parts: First, ritual purification by washing is part of Jewish tradition at least as far back as Moses (IIRC washing before every meal is part of the Torah for reasons more obvious now than they were then). Additionally, Johns particular commission to baptize was in anticipation and on behalf of the Messiah Whose coming he preached; in essence, he baptized people for both their present repentance and future faith in a Savior not yet revealed, but imminent.

EDIT: Y'know, displaying this thread in a paged format could have saved me the trouble of making this post (which reiterates points various knowledgeable people had already made) and let me go straight to the more narrowly focused ones I made elsewhere (without the need to make three posts instead of one). Not a criticism, just an observation. ;)
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
There's a source that resolves a surprisingly large number of misconceptions about Christianity.
This message last edited by Joel on 11/06/2011 at 11:00:04 AM
Reply to message
A question on baptism - 10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM 954 Views
To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection. - 10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM 700 Views
What I meant - 10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM 542 Views
I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM 519 Views
Re: I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM 611 Views
I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM 545 Views
Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM 504 Views
You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM 538 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM 482 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM 544 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM 513 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM 657 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM 514 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM 716 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM 719 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM 522 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM 545 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:33:01 PM 411 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:34:36 PM 478 Views
I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM 606 Views
Re: I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:54:17 AM 668 Views
He dances and dips in The Ganges- Very Nice. *NM* - 11/06/2011 02:15:41 AM 228 Views
Three dips - that's the ceremony. - 11/06/2011 02:35:43 AM 473 Views
Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity - 10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM 644 Views
Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason - 10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM 583 Views
I misunderstood, lets try again - 10/06/2011 01:44:43 PM 668 Views
Huh. *NM* - 10/06/2011 02:06:58 PM 269 Views
A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM 711 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:15:07 PM 697 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:19:25 PM 610 Views
Do you want a theological answer or a historical one? - 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM 684 Views
The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical - 10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM 551 Views
My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water - 10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM 642 Views
That is absurd. - 10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM 733 Views
It is absurd - 10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM 549 Views
When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move. - 10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM 664 Views
Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water" - 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM 497 Views
The point is that it's a symbol. - 11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM 520 Views
I have no problem with water as a symbol - 11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM 593 Views
You are totally missing the point. - 11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM 674 Views
Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense - 11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM 636 Views
your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion - 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM 897 Views
I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean" - 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM 536 Views
Beliefs about holy water are internally logical. - 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM 588 Views
Shrug. It was on topic. - 11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM 861 Views
Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 10:23:02 AM 716 Views
Re: Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 11:51:22 AM 713 Views
I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM 251 Views
Because we are all nuts in our own special ways? *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:36:03 PM 218 Views

Reply to Message