Active Users:315 Time:01/05/2024 11:46:22 PM
Perhaps, you seem to be claiming not do that yourself though Isaac Send a noteboard - 30/06/2011 01:40:57 PM
No, nobody's rights should be up to anyone else, unfortunately they have to be, for those of us who support democracy, the reason we entrust it to a majority is we distrust them less than the minority or the individual. We also enshrine personal rights whenever possible inside a document that requires prolonged super-majorities to change, so some kneejerk reaction from the populace doesn't either eradicate them or invent new ones.

Often, gay rights are already implied by a consistent reading of such documents, as many judges have remarked over the past few years. Judge Vaughn Walker, who issued the decision overturning Proposition 8 in California, noted that limiting marriage to one man, one woman constitutes gender discrimination as well as sexual orientation discrimination, and beyond that, it is rooted in conventional ideas about gender roles which we have supposedly progressed beyond as a society.


I would say that there are very few cases of gay rights being implied in the constitution or various fed, state, or local laws, and that generally when one goes hunting for something they want to find they will tend to find it, particularly in law.


Beg Pardon, you're the one who used the word 'forcing' and did it in regard to the majority. I am no more fond of the tyranny of the majority than you, but I'm also not fond of the tyranny of the minority either. And history is generally full of a lot more apparently wise and reasonable people who engaged in tyranny because they thought they knew what was best for the lowly masses than it was off frothing megalomaniac monsters who ruled on whim and spouted of cliche villain line, history just tends to rename the former as the latter when the next self-righteous bastard cuts their head off and declares themselves wise and benevolent, taken as a whole I prefer to take a whole bunch of ordinary people, sit them down and let both sides explain their POV, and then ask them what to do, it tends to work better, frankly I trust them to act morally more than I do politicians.

Forcing through the system, not down people's throats. (I really don't know how the rest of this relates even tangentially to the issue at hand.)


Insofar as I said I felt it would be best to put such matters to a popular vote, and not through the system, I'm curious why you said those comments in the first place. How my comment relates, is that when I say I think something is best left up to the majority, and people disagree, I generally think it a good idea to toss out a few reminders of why so many support democracy even though they are entirely aware it means there vote counts for no more than the guy next door who really needs a tag on the cord warning him not to make toast in the bathtub.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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New York Senate approves same-sex marriage - 25/06/2011 03:47:43 AM 1094 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 07:40:52 AM 356 Views
Re: Federalism is so fucking slow. *NM* - 25/06/2011 02:47:11 PM 188 Views
I'm actually not opposed to this. - 25/06/2011 03:48:32 PM 489 Views
Makes sense to me. - 25/06/2011 04:00:07 PM 654 Views
I'm not sure why there was even any need for such explicit protection. - 25/06/2011 04:04:47 PM 461 Views
There are two reasons, depending on ones position on the issue. - 25/06/2011 06:04:27 PM 513 Views
Meh, you never know. - 26/06/2011 12:58:37 AM 605 Views
so in your only Catholics are really married? - 26/06/2011 12:04:07 AM 461 Views
Church Doctrine. - 26/06/2011 12:57:39 AM 591 Views
That is simply not true - 26/06/2011 08:20:59 AM 511 Views
Yes it is. - 26/06/2011 05:14:29 PM 546 Views
That's patently wrong in that Orthodox weddings are explicitly recognized by the Church. - 26/06/2011 02:42:00 PM 479 Views
Yeah okay... - 26/06/2011 05:16:05 PM 517 Views
Are you sure about this? - 30/06/2011 04:47:57 PM 371 Views
Dragonsoul is wrong - 01/07/2011 09:21:43 AM 515 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 25/06/2011 04:05:15 PM 188 Views
Seems fine to me - 25/06/2011 05:44:30 PM 450 Views
Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 25/06/2011 09:37:28 PM 585 Views
Direct democracy is the only true democracy. *NM* - 26/06/2011 01:01:26 AM 199 Views
Sometimes it is grand not being a True Scottsman *NM* - 26/06/2011 08:21:49 AM 187 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 03:11:06 AM 535 Views
Good luck telling that to the deeply religious right. - 26/06/2011 03:20:04 AM 434 Views
I am a deeply religious member of the right, and I tell them that all the time *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:30:14 AM 198 Views
Then you're a rare person. *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:36:11 AM 200 Views
After a number of years of gay marriage - 26/06/2011 06:57:07 AM 432 Views
That's more or less true of virtually everything, not a great example - 26/06/2011 07:09:03 AM 460 Views
People shouldn't turn their own religion and/or opinion into law - 28/06/2011 07:33:48 PM 455 Views
I don't recall mentioning religion beyond confirming that I was religious - 28/06/2011 08:22:51 PM 484 Views
I admit I wasn't replying to you directly - 29/06/2011 07:20:10 AM 446 Views
I think you should give this subject a bit more thought - 29/06/2011 02:16:04 PM 482 Views
I'll address the bulk of this later - 29/06/2011 07:58:48 PM 365 Views
Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational. - 30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM 548 Views
Requiring different degrees of proof for things isn't particularly rational - 30/06/2011 01:14:44 PM 619 Views
I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 07:43:51 PM 995 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 08:59:00 PM 633 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 09:47:30 PM 895 Views
We're gonna have to pick this up another time - 01/07/2011 04:37:25 AM 462 Views
No, I used the word irrational to mean that it's not rational. - 30/06/2011 09:12:19 PM 471 Views
Fair Enough - 01/07/2011 04:32:44 AM 527 Views
Btw, in case you were wondering, I do like you - 01/07/2011 02:17:42 PM 522 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM 623 Views
I think you should give your fellow citizens a bit more trust and respect - 27/06/2011 05:41:52 PM 415 Views
I'm all for occasionally forcing stuff down people's throats... - 28/06/2011 11:44:12 AM 408 Views
My expectations are guided by psychology and history. - 28/06/2011 07:08:06 PM 522 Views
That's good to know, most of us do that, though we usually just call it common sense and experience - 28/06/2011 08:55:23 PM 570 Views
No, most people don't do that. Reasoning from cognitive biases and anecdotes is much more common. - 30/06/2011 12:18:40 AM 479 Views
Perhaps, you seem to be claiming not do that yourself though - 30/06/2011 01:40:57 PM 569 Views
Empire State Building was lit up in rainbow colors, looked cool *NM* - 25/06/2011 08:21:03 PM 209 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 11:41:30 PM 179 Views
So, fifth time is a charm? - 26/06/2011 06:38:26 AM 568 Views

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