Active Users:334 Time:04/07/2025 11:00:39 AM
Many will find any pledge unreasonable. Joel Send a noteboard - 19/09/2011 07:01:20 AM
The Dems are free to circulate a pledge of their own, and live with the language in it, this pledge is signed totally voluntarily with no coercion from the party, overt or subtle. This is hardly the only pledge out there available to be signed. People must live with the consequences of their pledges and their votes, if the Dems want to try to get their caucus to sign pledges that many would consider unreasonable then come November they'll pay for it, or not, as appropriate.

But the whole point of national pledges is to convince electoral majorities a partys candidates are committed to things large public majorities ardently support. Republicans didn't float a pledge not to increase taxes on the indepedently wealthy, and Democrats (probably) would be just as savvy (though they are notoriously awful at retail politics even when large majorities support an issue; national healthcare has proven that repeatedly). I'm sure most Democrats would be happy to sign, and honor, a pledge not to cut elderly medical care and/or pensions--which is exactly what necessary entitlement reforms would do, in part. Many might find that pledge unreasonable, but polls have consistently shown 70-80% of Americans not only find it reasonable but demand it, and Dems attempting to curry favor by making necessary cuts impossible won't help the situation any more than Republicans making necessary tax hikes impossible.

If I'm not mistaken, that was Legolas' point: If the major parties paint themselves into corner (which one of them has largely done already, hence the "do we break our promise or allow the default...?" conundrum that the recent "compromise" only delayed without resolving) any flexibility is a degree of capitulation and no effective policy can be written. There's been too much of that already, from Dems treating already planned overseas troop withdrawals as "spending cuts" to Republicans talking about "revenue increases" because they're willing to eliminate a few loopholes as long as they don't have to raise a penny of taxes. It's gotten us a compromise that pretends to reduce spending without actually doing that OR raising taxes, but allows both sides to claim victory and the pretense of deficit reduction even though the whole country (including S&P) knows they've just put off facing reality yet again while the problem worsens.

I'll skip what I consider very strong and apt parallels between the current GOP base and the radical king makers who made Democrats unelectable in the '70s and '80s just because it's a tangent that I think would quickly descend into hopelessly subjective partisan analysis. ;)
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Ok so increasing taxes on people making 1million+ is also NOT ok with Republicans - 18/09/2011 04:43:29 PM 1154 Views
You act surprised, this has been said since the beginning, openly and repeatedly - 18/09/2011 05:48:57 PM 547 Views
is this pledge legally binding? - 18/09/2011 06:52:44 PM 479 Views
Re: is this pledge legally binding? - 18/09/2011 08:14:49 PM 662 Views
read my lips still haunts them *NM* - 18/09/2011 08:23:29 PM 421 Views
And with good reason - 18/09/2011 08:38:10 PM 637 Views
That's rather easy though, isn't it? - 18/09/2011 09:02:49 PM 674 Views
Not really - 18/09/2011 10:02:12 PM 637 Views
Many will find any pledge unreasonable. - 19/09/2011 07:01:20 AM 584 Views
and if a republican becomes president, i'm sure all taxes will go up in 2013 - 20/09/2011 04:39:21 PM 723 Views
????? - 20/09/2011 07:16:00 PM 556 Views
Well, I'm glad they've at least raised the income range they were discussing. *NM* - 18/09/2011 06:10:57 PM 307 Views
not that it really matters - 18/09/2011 06:57:21 PM 697 Views
Don't confuse posturing with actual positions. - 18/09/2011 08:59:42 PM 573 Views
NO TAX INCREASES ON ANYONE, NOT ONE PENNY..... - 18/09/2011 11:15:11 PM 702 Views
George Carlin has a great routine on shit and stuff - 19/09/2011 01:32:22 AM 597 Views
So you're solution is... do nothing? *NM* - 21/09/2011 03:39:06 AM 409 Views
Simple change the law so capital gains are considered income, that will increase taxes on the rich *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:21:41 AM 276 Views
They are already. - 19/09/2011 02:42:08 AM 473 Views
Maybe I should be clearer - 19/09/2011 02:59:34 AM 638 Views
I've long felt the capital gains rate has ruined public companies - 19/09/2011 05:13:40 AM 536 Views
I agree with all that *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:00:35 PM 401 Views
There should be a set tax percentage that every US citizen pays. *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:25:13 PM 318 Views
+1 - a flat tax, with no or limited deductions is the way to go *NM* - 19/09/2011 03:16:53 PM 261 Views
Agreed - 19/09/2011 03:46:47 PM 634 Views
"Deserve's got nothin' to do with it." - 20/09/2011 02:48:19 PM 621 Views
I fully advocate massive cuts to both entitlement programs and military spending *NM* - 20/09/2011 11:53:10 PM 296 Views
I suspected that, but wasn't sure. - 25/09/2011 03:03:47 PM 711 Views
I was just going to say the same thing - 19/09/2011 08:23:39 PM 803 Views
Why not a fixed wage for all US workers; then the problem solves itself. - 20/09/2011 01:56:35 PM 508 Views
Wages are set by economic factors, not the government - 20/09/2011 07:46:18 PM 462 Views
well they wouldn't be in a worker's paradise *NM* - 20/09/2011 08:25:56 PM 273 Views
Sorry, didn't see this until now. - 27/09/2011 11:31:39 PM 712 Views
That works if you get rid of regressive taxes like the sales tax. - 21/09/2011 04:34:07 PM 517 Views
a lot of people don't seem to understand that sales tax is a regressive tax - 21/09/2011 04:44:16 PM 578 Views
It doesn't have to be - 21/09/2011 07:45:31 PM 680 Views

Reply to Message