you missed the whole other part where he talks abotu class size and what not
Aisha Send a noteboard - 20/09/2011 02:05:12 AM
yeah, its not just about money although they deserve more of it and should be able to fight for it. Its also about class size and the quality of education. In my old school district where many of my friends are now teaching, the budget cuts have made school a living hell for both student and teachers. MY friends had classes of 25-30 students but this year due to the lay offs and budget cuts my friends English class has 38 kids and not even enough SEATS for them to sit in. so yeah teaching and grading papers and making lesson plans and staying after school for free tutoring for 30 kids took all her time but add 8 more kids into the mix and she shouldn't get more money? plus the 2 periods she had to get her lesson plans together and prepare for the next class are now GONE.completely. as in she gets NO off period except 30 minutes for lunch that she works right through. Oh and her starting salary in Texas is 36K and she will get a 500 raise per year. whoop de freaking doo! working 12-16 hours a a day with a bachelors degree from UT Austin for 36K a year...SMH
Teachers absolutely have the right to strike, however as a nurse I will say I dont think we should ever strike if its for higher pay, we should do other things to get what we deserve but I cant morally justify going on strike when you are a healthcare professional or a police officer/fire fighter.
And on the other hand, if these drones, parasites and professional failures DO provide an urgently needed public service, then they should be taken out and shot for striking. The rule for police officers, who must risk their lives protecting society from the failures of the public school system, was "there is no right to strike against the public safety by anybody, anywhere, at anytime."
Police departments have no-strike clauses in the contracts with their PBA or FOP, and they get shot at, while getting paid much less than teachers, with more demonstrable good done.
Either teachers are necessary, in which case they should be held to the same standards and codes of behavior as other necessary-for-general-welfare public employees like police, fire and military personnel are; or they are hacks who have lucked into a cushy government gig where they use their union influence and huge war chests to put their supporters in office and have those same supporters dole out generous salary and benefit packages, and can never be fired because of non-competitive regulations on the employment of government functionaries.
Teachers absolutely have the right to strike, however as a nurse I will say I dont think we should ever strike if its for higher pay, we should do other things to get what we deserve but I cant morally justify going on strike when you are a healthcare professional or a police officer/fire fighter.
This is the real rub, I suspect, in all the legislation going down concerning the right to collective bargaining by public employees. In the end, you can't FORCE them to work, and at least in the case of teachers, they are not easy to replace.
Yes, they are. There are tons of teachers looking for jobs and in this economy, watch how fast solidarity goes down the drain when the chance to get a paycheck arises. It will be very interesting to see how this goes down. It's possible they'll all be fired, but replacing an entire school district is no easy task, and the performance of the school will suffer in any case... for the first few months at least, it will be like having a school FULL of substitute teachers.
Good. At least the usual levels of harm being done by public school teachers will tail off. So pass the laws you want... people with strong enough convictions can still make their voices heard. Funny how this sort of thing comes up every time one group of people tries to vote, or rule, on what specific rights another group of people is allowed to have.
That is the most absurd allusion. They are not a "group" deserving of rights, they are people who chose a profession and an employer. They have the right to agree to work for what their employer offers to pay or decline and seek employment elsewhere. The only reason they have been able to get away with their insufferable pretensions and outrageous demands is the government monopoly that has inflated their compensation and restricted their competition in ways that would have people screaming bloody murder if any of the so-called "monopolies" arising in the private sector or free markets attempted the same tactics. If these worthless reprobates are so good at their jobs and their function is so necessary, let them compete with private schools and private school teachers and ditch this tenure bullshit. You don't need academic freedom to teach math & ABCs and assign reading from textbooks selected at a level far above the classroom instructor's. And on the other hand, if these drones, parasites and professional failures DO provide an urgently needed public service, then they should be taken out and shot for striking. The rule for police officers, who must risk their lives protecting society from the failures of the public school system, was "there is no right to strike against the public safety by anybody, anywhere, at anytime."
Police departments have no-strike clauses in the contracts with their PBA or FOP, and they get shot at, while getting paid much less than teachers, with more demonstrable good done.
Either teachers are necessary, in which case they should be held to the same standards and codes of behavior as other necessary-for-general-welfare public employees like police, fire and military personnel are; or they are hacks who have lucked into a cushy government gig where they use their union influence and huge war chests to put their supporters in office and have those same supporters dole out generous salary and benefit packages, and can never be fired because of non-competitive regulations on the employment of government functionaries.
The teachers may well lose this round... but they seem willing to pay the consequences if they do, and you have to respect them for sticking to their guns, even in the current political climate concerning Public Unions.
They hell you do. What IS that climate concerning public unions? Where they can routinely assault and injure people at town hall events and political rallies without getting charged or even mentioned in the major media? Where they are routinely lionized by the media and political figures, except for a few officials portrayed as extremist for trying to reduce public expenses and the drain on the taxpayer during the most serious economic crisis in 60 years? As for "respect...for sticking to their guns" you simply demonstrate the bullshit double standards applied to these wastrels. When government hack or drone seeks more money from the tax-payers for what is supposed to be a desperately needed public function, and in doing so hold the supposed well-being and futures of CHILDREN hostage to their demands, that is called "principles" but when productive people in the private sector who provide goods and services to meet the demands & standards of actual customers, rather than unelected bureaucrats, attempt to charge what the market will bear for their product, and actually keep the money they make for themselves, then you and your ilk wail and shriek about "corporate greed" and "profiteering."Interesting Economic Sidenote- Suppose, for a second, that the Court orders the district to fire the teachers, as the judge is considering. That is a lot of positions to fill. Such a large, sudden draw on the available teachers is essentially a raise in demand, and the effect would surely touch other areas as well, which could lead to pay raises for teachers simply due to issues of supply/demand.
Have the teachers in question created a win/win situation, if not for themselves, then for their profession?
Of course they have. It will not still be an open market, and they will not be seeking remuneration based on what their skills would rightfully earn if their real customers were consulted in the matter. They will still need to fill useless slots and hire in numbers and based on criteria all determined by bureaucrats who have nothing to teach beyond holding down bureaucratic jobs. If it were truly a free market, they'd be able to hire desperate & hungry substitutes to replace the fired union lumps, and probably at lower salaries. At worst, they'd hire new teachers at the same rates as the fired ones, except the new hires would have the example of their now jobless colleagues to keep them from taking the children's futures hostage again. As it is, loosening up one little corner of the labyrinth will not help, because the system is so locked down that no relief can flow in. Have the teachers in question created a win/win situation, if not for themselves, then for their profession?
Aisha - formerly known as randschicka
Washington Teachers refuse Judge order to return to work.
19/09/2011 11:05:13 PM
- 762 Views
What's the dispute on?
19/09/2011 11:13:24 PM
- 593 Views
Seniority, Class Size, and Salaries.
19/09/2011 11:41:40 PM
- 499 Views
and children have a right to an education.
20/09/2011 12:30:20 AM
- 440 Views
So we ought to pay for it.
20/09/2011 05:48:34 PM
- 423 Views
They aren't solving any problems.
20/09/2011 08:33:22 PM
- 743 Views
Have you heard of another tactic that makes anyone listen?
21/09/2011 12:41:05 AM
- 423 Views
I don't really have any ideas myself. It's not my strong suit (political wrangling, that is)
21/09/2011 01:00:21 AM
- 462 Views
I don't really agree with seniority/tenure as much, but class size...
20/09/2011 07:42:39 PM
- 515 Views
You have to respect people for seeking more money? Seriously?
20/09/2011 12:23:22 AM
- 515 Views
you missed the whole other part where he talks abotu class size and what not
20/09/2011 02:05:12 AM
- 585 Views
Class size is a bullshit argument that teachers' unions push on people.
20/09/2011 03:25:58 AM
- 427 Views
You don't get to use the "Think of the Children" argument... it belongs to the teachers.
20/09/2011 05:52:36 PM
- 405 Views
You don't mean DC, right? I'm roommates with a DC teacher, I feel like I would have noticed
20/09/2011 01:02:00 AM
- 612 Views
seriously. if you break it down hourly...
20/09/2011 01:48:40 AM
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Eh... I'm more union-friendly than most, but teachers' unions are pretty terrible. *NM*
20/09/2011 06:11:09 AM
- 206 Views
I agree they have a lot of "stuff," but I don't think much of it is unwarranted
20/09/2011 02:30:35 PM
- 519 Views
being anti-teacher's union is not the same as being anti-teacher
20/09/2011 03:32:57 PM
- 568 Views
That is similar to claiming to be pro-soldier and cutting the VA.
20/09/2011 06:03:29 PM
- 550 Views
Do you have facts about how teachers are rated?
20/09/2011 08:08:04 PM
- 539 Views
well teachers are rated differently in different systems
20/09/2011 09:23:43 PM
- 609 Views
there are some really shitty charter schools too.
20/09/2011 09:36:42 PM
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and they need to learn form the charter schools that are doing well
20/09/2011 10:06:19 PM
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well there's some problems there
21/09/2011 12:20:27 AM
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I've little sympathy here
20/09/2011 03:08:58 AM
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I have no sympathy whatsoever.
20/09/2011 03:26:29 AM
- 405 Views
Oooh, Cancer is a horrible disease that spreads wildly and kills you!
20/09/2011 06:04:53 PM
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Public sector unions need to be banned
20/09/2011 04:30:00 AM
- 577 Views
+1, as per FDR and union leaders of that time, public unions are asking for trouble/problems. *NM*
20/09/2011 06:52:37 PM
- 213 Views
No, they need to be replaced.
20/09/2011 09:05:52 PM
- 377 Views
no they breed corruption and need to at the minimum be barred from political donations and strikes
20/09/2011 09:51:38 PM
- 589 Views
Fired them all, hire new teachers, end of problem..... *NM*
20/09/2011 06:51:01 PM
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You missed the memo.
20/09/2011 09:45:55 PM
- 453 Views
I would bet a lot of them will show up for the hire back interviews *NM*
20/09/2011 10:07:05 PM
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+1, a huge number of them will come crawling back for jobs. *NM*
20/09/2011 10:11:09 PM
- 233 Views