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If elected I pledge not to post on the RPMB. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/09/2011 01:54:00 PM
The Dems are free to circulate a pledge of their own, and live with the language in it, this pledge is signed totally voluntarily with no coercion from the party, overt or subtle. This is hardly the only pledge out there available to be signed. People must live with the consequences of their pledges and their votes, if the Dems want to try to get their caucus to sign pledges that many would consider unreasonable then come November they'll pay for it, or not, as appropriate.

But the whole point of national pledges is to convince electoral majorities a partys candidates are committed to things large public majorities ardently support. Republicans didn't float a pledge not to increase taxes on the indepedently wealthy, and Democrats (probably) would be just as savvy (though they are notoriously awful at retail politics even when large majorities support an issue; national healthcare has proven that repeatedly). I'm sure most Democrats would be happy to sign, and honor, a pledge not to cut elderly medical care and/or pensions--which is exactly what necessary entitlement reforms would do, in part. Many might find that pledge unreasonable, but polls have consistently shown 70-80% of Americans not only find it reasonable but demand it, and Dems attempting to curry favor by making necessary cuts impossible won't help the situation any more than Republicans making necessary tax hikes impossible.


No, the whole point of pledges is to make it clear to the voters, primary and general, and the party leadership, that you hold a view and are voluntarily handing a loaded gun to them to point at your head if you betray your pledge. What the pledge is, and whether or not people respect or agree with it, obviously effects votes, good or bad, depending on the pledge.


Heck of a sacrifice, huh? ;) Pledges to do (or not do) what people were already going to do (or not do) anyway aren't a noble principled stand or voluntarily hostage to voters, they're a rallying cry to the base and ultimatum to fling at opponents. When a pro-choice liberal "pledges" to fight abortion restrictions, the whole planet already knew they would; pledging it publicly is just a cheap publicity stunt to tell the base electing anyone else is tantamount to slaughtering women in the streets. Such pledges are an escape clause, so opponents who insist MAKING concessions is contingent on RECEIVING concessions, and that the nations interest requires sacrifices from everyone, politicians can drape stubborn refusal in pretensions to principled commitment. The pledge doesn't change politicians behavior, it just lets them indulge the conceit they're bowing to the peoples will rather than doing what they please.

When I was in HS, a friend of mine and moondogs had a poster of a mule in his stall, with a caption reading, "I'm not stubborn, I'm just true to my convictions." That's all the taxes pledge does: Present obstinance as commitment. Unfortunately, it incidentally makes compromise impossible because it elevates momentary rhetorical absolutism to non-negotiable long term policy. Again, polls shows 3 out 4 voters WANT a millionaire tax hike, and 5 out of 6 want NO Social Security cuts, so all that's missing now is Democrats reverently (and publicly) saying, "I have heard the peoples will: Tax hikes on millionaires and no Social Security cuts!" Then all routes to federal solvency will be eliminated; go, team.... :banghead:
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This message last edited by Joel on 21/09/2011 at 01:02:21 AM
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Ok so increasing taxes on people making 1million+ is also NOT ok with Republicans - 18/09/2011 04:43:29 PM 1154 Views
You act surprised, this has been said since the beginning, openly and repeatedly - 18/09/2011 05:48:57 PM 547 Views
is this pledge legally binding? - 18/09/2011 06:52:44 PM 479 Views
Re: is this pledge legally binding? - 18/09/2011 08:14:49 PM 662 Views
read my lips still haunts them *NM* - 18/09/2011 08:23:29 PM 421 Views
And with good reason - 18/09/2011 08:38:10 PM 637 Views
That's rather easy though, isn't it? - 18/09/2011 09:02:49 PM 675 Views
Not really - 18/09/2011 10:02:12 PM 637 Views
Many will find any pledge unreasonable. - 19/09/2011 07:01:20 AM 584 Views
Too bad for them, any pledge stands or falls on its own merits just like in real life - 19/09/2011 08:35:13 PM 567 Views
If elected I pledge not to post on the RPMB. - 20/09/2011 01:54:00 PM 725 Views
and if a republican becomes president, i'm sure all taxes will go up in 2013 - 20/09/2011 04:39:21 PM 723 Views
????? - 20/09/2011 07:16:00 PM 556 Views
Well, I'm glad they've at least raised the income range they were discussing. *NM* - 18/09/2011 06:10:57 PM 307 Views
not that it really matters - 18/09/2011 06:57:21 PM 697 Views
Don't confuse posturing with actual positions. - 18/09/2011 08:59:42 PM 573 Views
NO TAX INCREASES ON ANYONE, NOT ONE PENNY..... - 18/09/2011 11:15:11 PM 703 Views
George Carlin has a great routine on shit and stuff - 19/09/2011 01:32:22 AM 597 Views
So you're solution is... do nothing? *NM* - 21/09/2011 03:39:06 AM 409 Views
Simple change the law so capital gains are considered income, that will increase taxes on the rich *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:21:41 AM 276 Views
They are already. - 19/09/2011 02:42:08 AM 473 Views
Maybe I should be clearer - 19/09/2011 02:59:34 AM 638 Views
I've long felt the capital gains rate has ruined public companies - 19/09/2011 05:13:40 AM 536 Views
I agree with all that *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:00:35 PM 401 Views
There should be a set tax percentage that every US citizen pays. *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:25:13 PM 318 Views
+1 - a flat tax, with no or limited deductions is the way to go *NM* - 19/09/2011 03:16:53 PM 261 Views
Agreed - 19/09/2011 03:46:47 PM 634 Views
"Deserve's got nothin' to do with it." - 20/09/2011 02:48:19 PM 621 Views
I fully advocate massive cuts to both entitlement programs and military spending *NM* - 20/09/2011 11:53:10 PM 296 Views
I suspected that, but wasn't sure. - 25/09/2011 03:03:47 PM 711 Views
I was just going to say the same thing - 19/09/2011 08:23:39 PM 803 Views
Why not a fixed wage for all US workers; then the problem solves itself. - 20/09/2011 01:56:35 PM 509 Views
Wages are set by economic factors, not the government - 20/09/2011 07:46:18 PM 462 Views
well they wouldn't be in a worker's paradise *NM* - 20/09/2011 08:25:56 PM 273 Views
Sorry, didn't see this until now. - 27/09/2011 11:31:39 PM 712 Views
That works if you get rid of regressive taxes like the sales tax. - 21/09/2011 04:34:07 PM 517 Views
a lot of people don't seem to understand that sales tax is a regressive tax - 21/09/2011 04:44:16 PM 578 Views
It doesn't have to be - 21/09/2011 07:45:31 PM 680 Views

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