Sorry; I knew that one was a bit too graphic and did it anyway.
Joel Send a noteboard - 21/09/2011 05:34:45 AM

I'm sorry that you think the pledge is cynical, I don't know why, the right is blatantly and obviously devoutly and sincerely against tax hikes on anyone, if you think some of the politicians are playing on that fair enough, personally I think, with good cause, that most are as sincerely devoted to that as the rank and file. And if you odn't think the rank and file are, then you're essentially assuming that me, Trzaska, and RT are all cheerfully mouthing stuff we don't believe in.I can only speak for myself but I truly believe raising taxes on the rich will help us very little at best and likely hurt us an awful lot. Closing loopholes or shifting things around so that some of the ones who escape paying very little taxes is a different story, but raising the rate or making a new bracket? No way, I won't back that, not without clear and absolutely ironclad cuts several times larger in advance, and not cheerfully even then.
I'm sure they're sincere; that's my objection: The pledge is no more than political cover from the general electorate and colleagues on the other side for an intractable position to which they'd already committed.
As for accepting tax hikes only accompanied by cuts several times larger, that's the "grand bargain" Obama offered, the one with $3 trillion in cuts for just over half a trillion more in taxes that would've saved our credit rating, so we're back to what he told Cantor: Talk to your Speaker; even if we ignore the "spending cuts" for planned military withdrawals that was a roughly 4:1 ratio of spending cuts to taxes, so what more do you want? Even working on the dubious assumption that Democrats are any less servants of corporate interests than Republicans are, there's nowhere near enough trust for either side to expect the other to give make a major concession later if they make one now. It has to be simultaneous by both sides, because that's the only way to ensure neither reneges once they get what they wanted; Joe Lieberman proved that two years ago.
As for whether taxing the rich will help rather than hurt or the need for far greater spending cuts, we're running out of things to cut and have the lowest taxes of the past half century, so I obviously disagree.
EDIT: For greater precision.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
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Love still can't be coerced.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 21/09/2011 at 05:49:56 AM
Ok so increasing taxes on people making 1million+ is also NOT ok with Republicans
18/09/2011 04:43:29 PM
- 1154 Views
You act surprised, this has been said since the beginning, openly and repeatedly
18/09/2011 05:48:57 PM
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is this pledge legally binding?
18/09/2011 06:52:44 PM
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Re: is this pledge legally binding?
18/09/2011 08:14:49 PM
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That's rather easy though, isn't it?
18/09/2011 09:02:49 PM
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Not really
18/09/2011 10:02:12 PM
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Many will find any pledge unreasonable.
19/09/2011 07:01:20 AM
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Too bad for them, any pledge stands or falls on its own merits just like in real life
19/09/2011 08:35:13 PM
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If elected I pledge not to post on the RPMB.
20/09/2011 01:54:00 PM
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That didn't really make sense
20/09/2011 07:26:40 PM
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Sure it does: Pledging to do what one wanted to do anyway is rhetoric, not principle.
20/09/2011 08:04:25 PM
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Now you're debating with the definition of the word
20/09/2011 08:22:53 PM
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No, I accept the definition of the word, but reject cynical abuse of it.
21/09/2011 01:37:01 AM
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Could have done with out the kegger imagery
But this just makes it your opinion
21/09/2011 02:10:47 AM
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Sorry; I knew that one was a bit too graphic and did it anyway.
21/09/2011 05:34:45 AM
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There is a problem with compromise in this situation and lot of it the way it is being framed
19/09/2011 02:57:32 PM
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and if a republican becomes president, i'm sure all taxes will go up in 2013
20/09/2011 04:39:21 PM
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Well, I'm glad they've at least raised the income range they were discussing. *NM*
18/09/2011 06:10:57 PM
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This really doesn't address what Buffet was talking about, but that's not a surprise either.
18/09/2011 08:35:25 PM
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Simple change the law so capital gains are considered income, that will increase taxes on the rich *NM*
19/09/2011 01:21:41 AM
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They are already.
19/09/2011 02:42:08 AM
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Maybe I should be clearer
19/09/2011 02:59:34 AM
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I've long felt the capital gains rate has ruined public companies
19/09/2011 05:13:40 AM
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Actually, I think you AND Tom, as well as Isaac, are right.
19/09/2011 07:13:56 AM
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Class warfare doesn't work.....if it did, the R's would not have kicked butt in 2010
19/09/2011 03:21:17 PM
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"If there's a class war in this country, my class is winning."--Warren Buffet
20/09/2011 07:54:45 PM
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There should be a set tax percentage that every US citizen pays. *NM*
19/09/2011 01:25:13 PM
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+1 - a flat tax, with no or limited deductions is the way to go *NM*
19/09/2011 03:16:53 PM
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Agreed
19/09/2011 03:46:47 PM
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"Deserve's got nothin' to do with it."
20/09/2011 02:48:19 PM
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I fully advocate massive cuts to both entitlement programs and military spending *NM*
20/09/2011 11:53:10 PM
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And every child should be adequately fed and recieve a good education *NM*
19/09/2011 10:40:58 PM
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Why not a fixed wage for all US workers; then the problem solves itself.
20/09/2011 01:56:35 PM
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That works if you get rid of regressive taxes like the sales tax.
21/09/2011 04:34:07 PM
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a lot of people don't seem to understand that sales tax is a regressive tax
21/09/2011 04:44:16 PM
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It doesn't have to be
21/09/2011 07:45:31 PM
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Your solution is to tax people's savings? Tax "money storage", so that would be banks, right?
21/09/2011 10:29:36 PM
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