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Sorry; I knew that one was a bit too graphic and did it anyway. Joel Send a noteboard - 21/09/2011 05:34:45 AM
I'm sorry that you think the pledge is cynical, I don't know why, the right is blatantly and obviously devoutly and sincerely against tax hikes on anyone, if you think some of the politicians are playing on that fair enough, personally I think, with good cause, that most are as sincerely devoted to that as the rank and file. And if you odn't think the rank and file are, then you're essentially assuming that me, Trzaska, and RT are all cheerfully mouthing stuff we don't believe in.I can only speak for myself but I truly believe raising taxes on the rich will help us very little at best and likely hurt us an awful lot. Closing loopholes or shifting things around so that some of the ones who escape paying very little taxes is a different story, but raising the rate or making a new bracket? No way, I won't back that, not without clear and absolutely ironclad cuts several times larger in advance, and not cheerfully even then.

I'm sure they're sincere; that's my objection: The pledge is no more than political cover from the general electorate and colleagues on the other side for an intractable position to which they'd already committed.

As for accepting tax hikes only accompanied by cuts several times larger, that's the "grand bargain" Obama offered, the one with $3 trillion in cuts for just over half a trillion more in taxes that would've saved our credit rating, so we're back to what he told Cantor: Talk to your Speaker; even if we ignore the "spending cuts" for planned military withdrawals that was a roughly 4:1 ratio of spending cuts to taxes, so what more do you want? Even working on the dubious assumption that Democrats are any less servants of corporate interests than Republicans are, there's nowhere near enough trust for either side to expect the other to give make a major concession later if they make one now. It has to be simultaneous by both sides, because that's the only way to ensure neither reneges once they get what they wanted; Joe Lieberman proved that two years ago.

As for whether taxing the rich will help rather than hurt or the need for far greater spending cuts, we're running out of things to cut and have the lowest taxes of the past half century, so I obviously disagree.

EDIT: For greater precision.
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This message last edited by Joel on 21/09/2011 at 05:49:56 AM
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Ok so increasing taxes on people making 1million+ is also NOT ok with Republicans - 18/09/2011 04:43:29 PM 1154 Views
You act surprised, this has been said since the beginning, openly and repeatedly - 18/09/2011 05:48:57 PM 547 Views
is this pledge legally binding? - 18/09/2011 06:52:44 PM 479 Views
Re: is this pledge legally binding? - 18/09/2011 08:14:49 PM 663 Views
read my lips still haunts them *NM* - 18/09/2011 08:23:29 PM 421 Views
And with good reason - 18/09/2011 08:38:10 PM 637 Views
That's rather easy though, isn't it? - 18/09/2011 09:02:49 PM 675 Views
Not really - 18/09/2011 10:02:12 PM 637 Views
Many will find any pledge unreasonable. - 19/09/2011 07:01:20 AM 584 Views
Too bad for them, any pledge stands or falls on its own merits just like in real life - 19/09/2011 08:35:13 PM 567 Views
If elected I pledge not to post on the RPMB. - 20/09/2011 01:54:00 PM 725 Views
That didn't really make sense - 20/09/2011 07:26:40 PM 658 Views
Sure it does: Pledging to do what one wanted to do anyway is rhetoric, not principle. - 20/09/2011 08:04:25 PM 690 Views
Now you're debating with the definition of the word - 20/09/2011 08:22:53 PM 658 Views
No, I accept the definition of the word, but reject cynical abuse of it. - 21/09/2011 01:37:01 AM 713 Views
Could have done with out the kegger imagery But this just makes it your opinion - 21/09/2011 02:10:47 AM 619 Views
Sorry; I knew that one was a bit too graphic and did it anyway. - 21/09/2011 05:34:45 AM 650 Views
and if a republican becomes president, i'm sure all taxes will go up in 2013 - 20/09/2011 04:39:21 PM 723 Views
????? - 20/09/2011 07:16:00 PM 557 Views
Well, I'm glad they've at least raised the income range they were discussing. *NM* - 18/09/2011 06:10:57 PM 307 Views
not that it really matters - 18/09/2011 06:57:21 PM 697 Views
Don't confuse posturing with actual positions. - 18/09/2011 08:59:42 PM 573 Views
NO TAX INCREASES ON ANYONE, NOT ONE PENNY..... - 18/09/2011 11:15:11 PM 703 Views
George Carlin has a great routine on shit and stuff - 19/09/2011 01:32:22 AM 597 Views
So you're solution is... do nothing? *NM* - 21/09/2011 03:39:06 AM 409 Views
Simple change the law so capital gains are considered income, that will increase taxes on the rich *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:21:41 AM 276 Views
They are already. - 19/09/2011 02:42:08 AM 473 Views
Maybe I should be clearer - 19/09/2011 02:59:34 AM 638 Views
I've long felt the capital gains rate has ruined public companies - 19/09/2011 05:13:40 AM 536 Views
I agree with all that *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:00:35 PM 401 Views
There should be a set tax percentage that every US citizen pays. *NM* - 19/09/2011 01:25:13 PM 318 Views
+1 - a flat tax, with no or limited deductions is the way to go *NM* - 19/09/2011 03:16:53 PM 261 Views
Agreed - 19/09/2011 03:46:47 PM 634 Views
"Deserve's got nothin' to do with it." - 20/09/2011 02:48:19 PM 621 Views
I fully advocate massive cuts to both entitlement programs and military spending *NM* - 20/09/2011 11:53:10 PM 296 Views
I suspected that, but wasn't sure. - 25/09/2011 03:03:47 PM 711 Views
I was just going to say the same thing - 19/09/2011 08:23:39 PM 803 Views
Why not a fixed wage for all US workers; then the problem solves itself. - 20/09/2011 01:56:35 PM 509 Views
Wages are set by economic factors, not the government - 20/09/2011 07:46:18 PM 462 Views
well they wouldn't be in a worker's paradise *NM* - 20/09/2011 08:25:56 PM 273 Views
Sorry, didn't see this until now. - 27/09/2011 11:31:39 PM 712 Views
That works if you get rid of regressive taxes like the sales tax. - 21/09/2011 04:34:07 PM 517 Views
a lot of people don't seem to understand that sales tax is a regressive tax - 21/09/2011 04:44:16 PM 578 Views
It doesn't have to be - 21/09/2011 07:45:31 PM 681 Views

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