Active Users:813 Time:01/11/2025 05:24:43 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
For you and Tom as well, the same question about question eight. Joel Send a noteboard - 05/10/2011 08:33:39 PM
Since I noticed you both (in effect) cited the same objection: Subject/verb agreement. I (perhaps incorrectly) took "Twitter and texting" to be examples of a single general phenomenon suspected to have "eroded proper grammar for today's youths" and so thought nothing of introducing the question with "has." My logic is expounded at better length here, in an About.com entry written by one Richard Norquist, whose bio there states him to be a Doctor of English with 35 years experience teaching composition:
Normally a subject made up of more than one element takes a plural verb ("The President and Congress are at loggerheads"), although occasionally, when the elements add up to the same idea, the verb is singular ("The wear and tear on the car was tremendous"). But focus an eye on these compound subjects followed by singular verbs, all of which are correct:

Everything in the cupboard and everything on the table was smashed.
Everybody favoring the plan and everybody leaning toward it was interviewed.
Nobody in my house and nobody on my street has been robbed.
Anyone who has read the book and anybody who has even heard of its ideas agrees with the author.

Strange, eh? . . . The explanation would seem to be that in each instance the second 'particularizer' is superfluous and has no grammatical efect; it could just as well be omitted, and in some of the instances the and would change to or. . . .

"An odd quirk that proves nothing aside from the fact that some rules do have exceptions."
(Theodore Bernstein, Miss Thistlebottom's Hobgoblins, 1971)

Bolding is mine, for emphasis (and yes, I noticed that he mispelled "effect." Several of the examples here, the first especially, are similar to the language in question eight: "Everything on the table" and "everything in the cupboard" are clearly and wholly distinct groups, but a singular verb is used to reference the singular destruction of both groups.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Grammar junkies Dark Knight - 05/10/2011 06:46:31 PM 1114 Views
I'm not always sure that I'm correct, but.... nossy - 05/10/2011 07:04:13 PM 809 Views
I didn't see any errors Dark Knight - 05/10/2011 07:24:27 PM 795 Views
Re: I didn't see any errors nossy - 06/10/2011 03:14:07 PM 672 Views
You mean ... Nate - 06/10/2011 03:58:32 PM 753 Views
Must ... have ... grammar. Nate - 05/10/2011 07:53:34 PM 989 Views
For you and Tom as well, the same question about question eight. Joel - 05/10/2011 08:33:39 PM 1266 Views
Tom can probably give you actual terms and correct rules, but here's my take on it. Nate - 05/10/2011 08:43:47 PM 757 Views
Er...yes I meant them as a singular idea... *NM* Dark Knight - 05/10/2011 08:47:34 PM 463 Views
Use them together, and only together, for fifteen years and we can discuss this again. *NM* Tom - 05/10/2011 09:32:30 PM 397 Views
That makes sense as far as it goes. Joel - 05/10/2011 09:02:42 PM 795 Views
But do you actually regard them that way? Nate - 05/10/2011 09:08:36 PM 780 Views
Yeah, pretty much. Joel - 05/10/2011 09:25:18 PM 740 Views
Re: Yeah, pretty much. Nate - 05/10/2011 09:29:33 PM 608 Views
OK then. Joel - 05/10/2011 09:59:50 PM 784 Views
No, Joel. You're just wrong. Again. Get used to it. We have. Tom - 05/10/2011 09:31:21 PM 680 Views
I can live with being wrong, at least in the sense of technical error. Joel - 05/10/2011 10:06:30 PM 781 Views
Let's just pare this down to the bare bones. Tom - 06/10/2011 01:37:30 AM 640 Views
He made a mistake that I did not recognize as a mistake because I read his words as he intended. Joel - 06/10/2011 04:43:39 AM 790 Views
You bring up a point that I was researching the other day Dark Knight - 05/10/2011 08:53:40 PM 832 Views
You guys mean a hyphen, not a dash. Rebekah - 05/10/2011 09:00:25 PM 786 Views
You're right of course! Nate - 05/10/2011 09:13:44 PM 855 Views
I frequently am. Rebekah - 05/10/2011 09:16:38 PM 856 Views
So I've noticed. Nate - 05/10/2011 09:19:38 PM 771 Views
I like telling people, too. Rebekah - 05/10/2011 09:34:50 PM 770 Views
You can use charmap. Joel - 05/10/2011 10:21:32 PM 819 Views
Re: You guys mean a hyphen, not a dash. Stephen - 06/10/2011 01:15:02 PM 722 Views
Mmm, dashing. Nate - 05/10/2011 09:02:53 PM 773 Views
Emdashing is an entirely different form of punctuation. Joel - 05/10/2011 09:07:36 PM 831 Views
Achtung! Grammatik! :insert Nazi-saluting smiley as the Wehrmacht marches by: Tom - 05/10/2011 08:10:45 PM 886 Views
I love this bit. Nate - 05/10/2011 08:26:52 PM 873 Views
Bring back the BSG! Joel - 05/10/2011 08:55:32 PM 797 Views
Re: your 2nd irritating error for question 2 Sareitha Sedai - 06/10/2011 04:12:49 PM 738 Views
Good poll, especially for this site. Joel - 05/10/2011 08:11:10 PM 894 Views
Re: serial comma. Nate - 05/10/2011 08:31:58 PM 767 Views
Maybe I was being a little anal there. Joel - 05/10/2011 08:35:33 PM 743 Views
Same here Dark Knight - 05/10/2011 08:43:34 PM 656 Views
I think it's conventional to use a comma before "etc". Rebekah - 05/10/2011 08:55:11 PM 731 Views
Re: Grammar junkies random thoughts - 05/10/2011 08:33:06 PM 786 Views
Re: Grammar junkies Dark Knight - 05/10/2011 08:49:43 PM 838 Views
People should talk in a way that can be understood, else they are not communicating. Joel - 05/10/2011 09:17:37 PM 830 Views
Re: "everyone's". ~winky~ *NM* Nate - 05/10/2011 09:22:18 PM 382 Views
Is it time for my lecture on superfluous apostrophes again? Joel - 05/10/2011 09:43:47 PM 741 Views
You mean your lecture on "superfluous" apostrophes. Rebekah - 05/10/2011 09:53:31 PM 684 Views
As have I. Multiple times. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 09:55:08 PM 369 Views
I am not stubborn, just true to my convictions. Joel - 05/10/2011 09:56:39 PM 938 Views
Unsurprisingly, I don't really agree with you at all on this point. :p Nate - 05/10/2011 10:29:59 PM 825 Views
I do not really think I am "right" on this one so much as "not wrong." Joel - 06/10/2011 12:01:36 AM 744 Views
But contradictions are inherent in the entire English language! Nate - 06/10/2011 01:25:39 AM 741 Views
Ghoti. Also, this is why Rebekah and don't argue this any more. *NM* Ghavrel - 06/10/2011 04:44:42 AM 344 Views
Sure, but not deliberate ones created by grammarians who know better. Joel - 06/10/2011 05:40:58 AM 748 Views
I'm going to listen to the others. Nate - 06/10/2011 06:17:18 AM 756 Views
Like I say, I appreciate exceptions when justified (and again, only claiming to be "not wrong." ) Joel - 06/10/2011 07:26:18 AM 651 Views
But you are wrong Sareitha Sedai - 06/10/2011 02:17:40 PM 780 Views
that is OK he is very good at being wrong *NM* random thoughts - 06/10/2011 03:43:23 PM 400 Views
I disagree. Joel - 07/10/2011 12:15:14 AM 723 Views
How utterly unsurprising Sareitha Sedai - 07/10/2011 02:21:38 PM 691 Views
"We want to be nothing if not persistent." Joel - 07/10/2011 02:39:19 PM 751 Views
Doesn't matter. Sareitha Sedai - 07/10/2011 03:12:14 PM 765 Views
Perhaps not, but it should, and I am not above being a lone voice crying in the wilderness. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:17:35 PM 849 Views
What. Zeeb - 06/10/2011 06:17:41 PM 828 Views
Those cases are not the same, because those words are already possessive in their own right. Joel - 06/10/2011 10:52:06 PM 816 Views
if you have trouble understanding my post it is more likely do to typing skills than grammar random thoughts - 05/10/2011 09:31:42 PM 738 Views
Likely so; I have the same problem, but usually when writing by hand. Joel - 05/10/2011 09:53:08 PM 713 Views
You called? Rebekah - 05/10/2011 08:53:54 PM 823 Views
Grammar schmammar! Avendesora - 05/10/2011 09:01:47 PM 861 Views
Wongy tip #77 Two Wongs - 05/10/2011 11:15:12 PM 723 Views
#1) I do not use NetSpeak while playing games, texting or using social media. TaskmasterJack - 05/10/2011 11:34:12 PM 729 Views
What about NateSpeak? *NM* Nate - 06/10/2011 04:01:08 PM 356 Views
I did use that once to tell the story of you and CNRedDragon going to see Ice Princess. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/10/2011 01:46:50 AM 366 Views
A timeless classic. Nate - 07/10/2011 01:53:36 AM 696 Views
Re: Grammar junkies wolfsister - 06/10/2011 01:17:28 AM 747 Views
Yes. Camilla - 06/10/2011 06:53:46 AM 687 Views
I forgot about "of" for "have." Joel - 06/10/2011 07:31:11 AM 725 Views
I try ironclad - 06/10/2011 09:18:29 AM 781 Views
I freebase split infinitives on a regular basis. Stephen - 06/10/2011 01:53:36 PM 655 Views
The split infinitive is not grammatically incorrect. Tom - 06/10/2011 02:04:34 PM 717 Views
I wish more people knew this. Rebekah - 06/10/2011 07:38:46 PM 681 Views
Junky Grammar. Sareitha Sedai - 06/10/2011 04:24:01 PM 675 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes