I quite agree with Joel on this point (frightening as that admission may be).
Tom Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 02:01:05 PM
The "bringing democracy" part has always been an afterthought. If you look at the rhetoric of the Bush and now Obama administrations, there is a clear emphasis on counterinsurgency and making sure the Taliban don't come back to power. Yes, part of the reason we say they shouldn't come back is because they aren't democratic, but the primary reason is, as stated over and over and over, that they would provide safe haven for al Qaeda.
The Taliban helped al Qaeda attack us on September 11. Much as we might like to disentangle them now if it allows us to get out of Afghanistan (and I'm not saying everyone sees the need for that, either), we know that Mullah Omar had appointed bin Laden to a very high post connected with defense. They weren't just offering safe haven to al Qaeda; they were actively working with them. Al Qaeda operatives had blown up Massood just a day earlier, clearing the way for the Taliban to take the last part of the country not in their control.
Iraq was touted as a mission of democracy FAR more than Afghanistan. Of course, I couldn't care less if we brought democracy to them - democracy can't be imposed from without anyway.
The Taliban helped al Qaeda attack us on September 11. Much as we might like to disentangle them now if it allows us to get out of Afghanistan (and I'm not saying everyone sees the need for that, either), we know that Mullah Omar had appointed bin Laden to a very high post connected with defense. They weren't just offering safe haven to al Qaeda; they were actively working with them. Al Qaeda operatives had blown up Massood just a day earlier, clearing the way for the Taliban to take the last part of the country not in their control.
Iraq was touted as a mission of democracy FAR more than Afghanistan. Of course, I couldn't care less if we brought democracy to them - democracy can't be imposed from without anyway.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
Am I the only one who doesn't care if the Marines piss on the corpses of Taliban?
13/01/2012 03:28:08 PM
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Probably not the only one.
13/01/2012 03:51:18 PM
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Actually, IIRC, we were told the Afghanistan war was important because of the Talibans threat to us.
14/01/2012 11:18:28 PM
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Yes, that was part of it. Of course. AND we were going to help bring democracy.
15/01/2012 12:42:57 AM
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If we have time, sure.
15/01/2012 10:18:31 PM
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ooookay. *NM*
16/01/2012 12:12:06 AM
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?
16/01/2012 01:17:37 AM
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Re: ?
16/01/2012 12:22:39 PM
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I quite agree with Joel on this point (frightening as that admission may be).
16/01/2012 02:01:05 PM
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Doesn't matter.
16/01/2012 02:33:53 PM
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Your definition of "terrible thing" seems quite elastic.
16/01/2012 07:21:12 PM
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It undermines one of our stated goals, sure, but that particular goal was bunk from the outset.
17/01/2012 06:50:11 AM
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I am pissed at them
13/01/2012 06:00:56 PM
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Congratulations: You are now where a LOT of Americans have been on a LOT of US policy over the years
14/01/2012 07:43:24 AM
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Congratulations you have again missed the point
14/01/2012 05:06:24 PM
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Not at all, you have just evidently decided it is relevant now that the President is a Democrat.
14/01/2012 11:04:17 PM
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Joel, you're full of shit in this particular case
16/01/2012 12:05:54 AM
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Let's edit slightly: Joel, you're full of shit in this particular case
16/01/2012 12:57:22 AM
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He is applying a double standard, a practice I dislike intensely.
16/01/2012 01:15:05 AM
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no Joel you just can't see passed your politics
16/01/2012 02:15:51 AM
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I recall your disappointment in the soldiers then, but also your rejection of the view you took here
16/01/2012 02:27:36 AM
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I don't think that urinating on a dead body reflects well on anyone.
13/01/2012 07:47:20 PM
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Its indicitive of a breakdown in discipline and the erosion of the values of the corps.
13/01/2012 09:57:15 PM
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I thought this WAS the issue at hand. I haven't paid much attention to this story. *NM*
14/01/2012 12:00:53 AM
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I have a strong feeling that this was not the worst that's been done to those bodies
13/01/2012 10:43:34 PM
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Apparently the Taliban aren't too put out by it. They're still willing to negotiate and talk.
14/01/2012 01:32:59 AM
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Professional soldiers need to consider the impact of their actions on the cause
14/01/2012 08:25:30 AM
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Awful. Worst post ever. *NM*
14/01/2012 05:12:41 PM
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That's absurdly stupid of both of you. Expression of legitimate opinion hardly qualifies as "worst"
14/01/2012 08:46:30 PM
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it is our OPINION that this is the worst post ever.
14/01/2012 11:32:49 PM
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Wow. Remind me to point this out the next time Dragonsoul attacks you.
15/01/2012 02:52:47 AM
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im a little surprised that you are this offended by us calling your post the worst ever. *NM*
15/01/2012 03:52:51 AM
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Given the shit I've seen and the miserable way you've expressed yourself, I'm surprised.
15/01/2012 04:42:41 PM
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I agree worst post ever is one hell of a high bar
15/01/2012 03:52:42 AM
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Seriously, I once posted nude pics of a chat admins wife and THIS is the worst post ever? *NM*
15/01/2012 05:28:32 AM
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Personally, I expected a little more nuance from you.
15/01/2012 03:52:24 PM
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Well, and I would have expected a lot more nuance from you. Your response was worthless.
15/01/2012 04:40:57 PM
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moral?
14/01/2012 09:53:01 PM
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I agree it was stupid to record it, and a breach of policy.
14/01/2012 11:05:49 PM
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im just baffled
14/01/2012 11:36:32 PM
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Well, in the future you can expect it.
15/01/2012 02:54:59 AM
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nobody said you had to cry about it....just acknowledge its a fucked up thing to do
15/01/2012 03:38:29 AM
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This shows that you are a bit of a sociopath *NM*
15/01/2012 08:08:39 AM
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You're still upset I called American girls prudes.
15/01/2012 04:43:31 PM
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I had forgotten you called American girls prudes
16/01/2012 10:22:50 AM
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You're right, I'm not really bothered.
16/01/2012 09:18:50 PM
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There are all kinds of rationalizations why peeing on dead bodies isn't that bad in the grand
17/01/2012 10:32:45 PM
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What is it about this post that is bringing the mediocre intellectuals out of the woodwork? *NM*
17/01/2012 03:18:29 AM
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as someone said on the radio recently...
16/01/2012 08:41:25 PM
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They aren't conditioned to murder, much less "in cold blood"
16/01/2012 09:15:54 PM
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