No one FORCED the officer in that episode to do ANYTHING.
Joel Send a noteboard - 03/02/2012 04:57:20 AM
Reality is though when you resist you are creating the situation that leads to violence. If I put you in a situation where you have to commit an act of violence am I responsible for that violence or are you? When you put the police in position where they are forced to use violence in order for them to enforce the law then you should be held morally and legally responsible for that violence. So if some of that pepper spray blows back in the cops eye you should be charged with assaulting a police officer since it was you who created the violent situation. If you are intentionally creating a situation where violence is the only method that can bring you into compliance then you have created the violence and I really don't want to hear any whining about how you forced the mean police officer to hurt you.
I really do not want to get between ya'll (though I probably should; I know moondog a HELL of a lot better than you do (clearly)) but must note that definition of "force" is WILDLY at odds with any accepted meaning of the word. A cop pepper spraying someone can add an assaulting an officer charge if it blows back on him?!

The idea passive resistance INITIATES violence is dangerous. If a vagrant asleep on a park bench refuses an officers order to move, is he "forced" to use pepper spray? What if the "vagrant" was shot three times while being mugged and only got to the park bench before collapsing into unconsciousness due to blood loss?
Some level of force is legitimate, even justified, in some cases. I still cannot decide if the pepper spray was such a case (though those cops surely have a written policy on the subject
) but physically removing protesters is. However, force is NEVER compulsory, and the notion motionless impassivity makes it so, that simply refusing to move excuses beating someone as long as an office shouts, "STOP RESISTING111" in the process... that POLICE might indulge such dangerously skewed beliefs is a great additional reason the public should be able to tape public servants publicly performing their public duties. The fact no one has any expectation of privacy for acts performed in public is more than sufficient, but thanks for the excellent clincher.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Upcoming Chicago G8 Summit Focuses Attention on Illinois First Amendment Infringement
- 03/02/2012 12:20:25 AM
1115 Views
police officiers have nothing to fear fromvideo taping? Sorry Joel but that is pure crap
- 03/02/2012 01:01:51 AM
676 Views
There's a simple solution to this
- 03/02/2012 02:38:05 AM
610 Views
would you take a job where your ever move was captured on tape?
- 03/02/2012 02:59:46 AM
705 Views
I have had two, that I recall off the top of my head; SOME of us are NOT too good for some jobs.
- 03/02/2012 03:11:29 AM
564 Views
- 03/02/2012 03:11:29 AM
564 Views
yes so we would end up with people like you as cops, thanks for making my point
- 03/02/2012 04:09:54 AM
546 Views
So if your point is invalid the problem is me; glad to see you are being objective here.
- 03/02/2012 04:23:03 AM
511 Views
- 03/02/2012 04:23:03 AM
511 Views
If there were mobs of anger idiots looking set up situation where you could be defaimed
- 03/02/2012 04:50:36 AM
598 Views
If it makes you feel better, Rod Blagojevich agrees context ALWAYS exonerates ANYTHING.
- 03/02/2012 07:24:55 AM
766 Views
I'm not asking them to wear them when they go home for the day
- 03/02/2012 05:20:42 AM
627 Views
that is just Big Brother for thee but not for me
- 03/02/2012 05:45:02 PM
693 Views
This started from the banning of video taping things happening in public
- 03/02/2012 08:22:22 PM
639 Views
There are lots of jobs like that
- 03/02/2012 06:19:21 AM
656 Views
and how many of those cameras are controlled by activist looking to smear them?
- 03/02/2012 05:35:32 PM
728 Views
Isn't this already the case with many police officers / departments?
- 03/02/2012 01:02:25 PM
563 Views
Yes and no; in many cases they can and do turn off the cameras when it suits them.
- 03/02/2012 02:33:32 PM
725 Views
I have a job that does that. *NM*
- 03/02/2012 04:37:44 PM
230 Views
a lot of jobs monitor and area but very an individual to wear a camera *NM*
- 03/02/2012 05:47:59 PM
235 Views
Write a sentence that can be understood and maybe I'll reply with something relevant. *NM*
- 04/02/2012 04:57:27 PM
202 Views
i can't tell if you're making a point or just stupid....
- 03/02/2012 02:42:11 AM
592 Views
luck for my job isn't so hard. Judging you as stupid is an easy call
- 03/02/2012 03:46:12 AM
660 Views
No one FORCED the officer in that episode to do ANYTHING.
- 03/02/2012 04:57:20 AM
509 Views
The pepper spraying? That is the best you can do?
- 03/02/2012 02:54:43 AM
855 Views
OK I see the problem and it is rampant ignorance
- 03/02/2012 04:33:47 AM
681 Views
I think we could find a middle ground
- 03/02/2012 06:06:32 AM
563 Views
I agree there should be some middle ground
- 03/02/2012 05:26:33 PM
595 Views
Um, HELLO, it is a felony for journalists to tape police in IL, too.
- 03/02/2012 07:16:15 PM
614 Views
That is definitely the problem, though casting aspersions on everyone you can think of hurts, too.
- 03/02/2012 06:55:30 AM
791 Views
unfortunately most cops seem to want a double standard
- 03/02/2012 02:39:01 AM
586 Views
Ah; I did not realize the SCOTUS had overturned that.
- 03/02/2012 03:05:12 AM
543 Views
Well, public or private, one does not leave one's right to privacy at the door
- 03/02/2012 05:19:12 PM
577 Views
