Active Users:252 Time:23/04/2024 12:44:12 PM
I see your point, but not how it changes much in the conversation where we discussed that Joel Send a noteboard - 25/02/2012 01:49:29 AM
I did phrase my rebuttal as a question, but that re-rebuttal sounds like just another dodge in the spirit of "capital gains taxes are double taxation even though we fought tooth and nail to have corporations treated as distinct persons, separating their income from that of shareholders."
He does display an only superficial understanding of the tax code, however. A case in point is that he recently tried to say that state taxes didn't count in determining the effective tax rate because they were deducted, apparently failing to appreciate the difference between a deduction (which reduces only one's taxable income) and a credit (which is a dollar for dollar reduction in one's tax bill).

I am aware of the distinction, but, IMHO, you make far too much of it. You argued federal taxes must be considered in conjunction with state and local taxes (and, as I said at the time, I strongly agree; it is an issue often ignored in vitriolic complaints against oppressive federal taxes.) I responded that "to the extent the latter are deducted from the former they are included in, not an addition to, federal income tax." Deductions lowering the amount of income federally taxed rather than directly lowering the tax itself does not significantly alter that. Income above a certain amount x is taxed; if income-x-state income tax>0, federal income tax is rightly owed. However, the federal tax includes the state tax by not taxing it.

In terms of the point you raised at the time (whether US corporate income tax is competive with other nations when local income income tax is added:) First and foremost, corporate income tax within political subdivisions is not unique to the US; Canada and Germany (to name just the ones I know of) have them also. If we want to trade simplicity for precision by considering local taxation, we must do so across the board. That will diminish the effects of corporations paying 18, 12 or 0% tax (instead of 38%) on billions in profits, but it will be no less egregious in terms of federal corporate income tax.

Even the overall effect will not be diminished much though, because corporate income tax is <10% in all but one place (the top earners in IA,) <9% in all but six others and <8% in all but ten others. Four states have no corporate income tax at all (not counting TX, which taxes either income or capital, whichever is higher, as a franchise tax.) Even in the case of the most profitable IA corporations, 12%+0% (or 12%, or even 18%) is not too bad for a corporation earning billions in profits, and quite competitive with any country where any corporation wants to maintain its headquarters. US companies build FACTORIES in Third World despotisms; they do NOT incorporate there, because the kind of governments willing to grant low corporate income tax rates tend to be the kind who simply seize corporate income if it becomes large enough to warrant the effort. For all the talk about Americas "extreme" corporate income tax costing us business, how many companies have actually left the US instead of simply moving their production?

As to the ad hominems... well, they are not the best way to bolster disingenuous arguments. ;)
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Why Joel is CRAZY - Nearly Half of All Americans Don't Pay Federal Income Taxes - 23/02/2012 04:43:15 AM 1416 Views
A not so hypothetical situation... - 23/02/2012 05:46:44 AM 842 Views
Your paying more money now than then. Lower rate but more money *NM* - 23/02/2012 07:52:51 AM 511 Views
Accurate statement, but not a justification *NM* - 23/02/2012 03:44:55 PM 402 Views
Re: A not so hypothetical situation... - 23/02/2012 02:39:43 PM 946 Views
I don't know much about that. - 23/02/2012 03:53:27 PM 782 Views
Why the heck do you think the current tax system is skewed to the rich? - 23/02/2012 03:18:43 PM 982 Views
That's a fair question - 23/02/2012 03:52:08 PM 868 Views
You're operating under the same fallacy he does - that people should pay income taxes. - 23/02/2012 12:05:52 PM 1036 Views
In much the same way - 23/02/2012 01:40:58 PM 989 Views
Same argument re: fallacies - 24/02/2012 02:52:17 PM 819 Views
Was meant as a joke reply - 02/03/2012 06:30:15 PM 1009 Views
Joel is crazy, but I highly doubt that this is "why" - 23/02/2012 01:36:37 PM 1028 Views
HA! HA! Very well played! *NM* - 23/02/2012 03:49:35 PM 357 Views
I see your point, but not how it changes much in the conversation where we discussed that - 25/02/2012 01:49:29 AM 812 Views
Joel, get your head out of your ass, if that is possible - 25/02/2012 07:02:34 PM 860 Views
You kiss your momma with that ad hominem? - 27/02/2012 09:11:33 AM 1014 Views
You mention this statistic all the time. - 23/02/2012 02:16:47 PM 715 Views
Obviously, we are talking about the bottom 50%..... - 23/02/2012 03:22:43 PM 750 Views
How do you account for retired folks? - 23/02/2012 04:18:59 PM 963 Views
social security isn't taxable either *NM* - 24/02/2012 04:21:21 AM 416 Views
Easy... he doesn't. - 25/02/2012 02:56:05 AM 698 Views
I wonder how much of that statistic is students - 23/02/2012 02:22:58 PM 977 Views
Federal taxes - 23/02/2012 04:18:22 PM 841 Views
Your figures are fairly unrealistic - 23/02/2012 04:54:44 PM 1037 Views
Not entirely. - 23/02/2012 06:30:18 PM 787 Views
On exempting SS income: - 25/02/2012 02:30:43 AM 788 Views
Is there any reason why one should exclude the other? - 23/02/2012 07:32:09 PM 838 Views

Reply to Message