Interesting, but lacking the data I consider critical; FICA etc. should not be counted, IMHO.
Joel Send a noteboard - 25/02/2012 02:10:45 AM
The link below (which I also posted further down in the thread) is a blog post by a member of the Tax Policy Center, which did the research. It says:
It is no accident, btw, that the number of people not paying income tax was so high in 2009. You may have noticed that we’ve had a recession lately. And here is a powerful insight: When people’s incomes decline so too does their income tax (at least most of the time). At the same time, many working families have benefited from temporary tax cuts aimed at boosting the economy, and as a result some did not pay income taxes last year. As the economy improves and those tax cuts expire, it should also be no surprise that the share of people who don't pay income taxes will likely shrink from half last year to less than 40 percent by 2012.
Medicare, Social Security and the like are special cases, because they are effectively more investment trust funds than the taxes they nominally are. Past debates over whether SS etc. are "taxes" require I state this very carefully, but you know what I mean, I am sure. People who live long enough (theoretically) get back—with interest—every dime paid into SS and Medicare; SS withholding is capped partly for that reason. Medicare and SS were not meant to finance government (even though SS did just that for a generation, until its balance finally became negative last year; now we have a BIG problem amounting to about 15% of our federal debt by itself.)
It is fair to not count such things as the nominal "tax" they are, since they only represent entitlements held in trust, to be later returned to taxpayers. They reduce the amount of money people have to pay bills today, but only in exchange for increasing money available for that tomorrow. They do nothing to support national government. It is reasonable to say people who only pay SS and Medicare taxes do not pay part of the countrys costs, because it is true. There is a very good reason for that (i.e. they cannot,) but the statement is essentially sound.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 25/02/2012 at 02:19:34 AM
Why Joel is CRAZY - Nearly Half of All Americans Don't Pay Federal Income Taxes
23/02/2012 04:43:15 AM
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A not so hypothetical situation...
23/02/2012 05:46:44 AM
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Your paying more money now than then. Lower rate but more money *NM*
23/02/2012 07:52:51 AM
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Why the heck do you think the current tax system is skewed to the rich?
23/02/2012 03:18:43 PM
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Once again, poor people have no money with which to pay taxes.
23/02/2012 06:23:07 AM
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50% of America is not "poor" or too poor to pay federal income taxes.....
23/02/2012 01:01:24 PM
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You base that statement on what, exactly? Fervent desire that it be true?
25/02/2012 12:43:30 AM
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2009 (the year cited for this claim) was an outlier because of temporary tax cuts and the economy.
25/02/2012 01:14:01 AM
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Interesting, but lacking the data I consider critical; FICA etc. should not be counted, IMHO.
25/02/2012 02:10:45 AM
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It's a phrasing thing, permits more bullshit
25/02/2012 04:41:06 AM
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Maybe I am just playing the same game,but I find stats from "the other side" compelling in some ways
25/02/2012 10:36:40 AM
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You're operating under the same fallacy he does - that people should pay income taxes.
23/02/2012 12:05:52 PM
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In much the same way
23/02/2012 01:40:58 PM
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Joel is crazy, but I highly doubt that this is "why"
23/02/2012 01:36:37 PM
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I see your point, but not how it changes much in the conversation where we discussed that
25/02/2012 01:49:29 AM
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You mention this statistic all the time.
23/02/2012 02:16:47 PM
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Obviously, we are talking about the bottom 50%.....
23/02/2012 03:22:43 PM
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I wonder how much of that statistic is students
23/02/2012 02:22:58 PM
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The number "paying taxes" should include dependents of those paying
23/02/2012 02:39:21 PM
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yah I read the link, but apparently I just didn't understand their explanation.
23/02/2012 05:40:54 PM
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Federal taxes
23/02/2012 04:18:22 PM
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Your figures are fairly unrealistic
23/02/2012 04:54:44 PM
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Not entirely.
23/02/2012 06:30:18 PM
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Yeah I don't normally assume NY as a baseline
23/02/2012 06:41:37 PM
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It probably isn't. We even tax delivery fees, gardening services and other things with sales tax.
25/02/2012 07:03:46 PM
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We don't tax transport of property either
25/02/2012 08:16:53 PM
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Places usually get around it with free delivery. A tax on a $0 item is still $0. *NM*
25/02/2012 09:12:22 PM
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Income taxes are not the only kind of taxes. 86% of Americans pay payroll or income tax.
23/02/2012 09:51:50 PM
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And give the riff raff a reason to become involved in politics? Are you daft? *NM*
24/02/2012 05:04:51 AM
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25% of america is under 18, that means ~25% of the rest are not working or paid very little
25/02/2012 08:17:52 PM
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