Your first statement, which you're backing off from already in a big way, was:
Note that you say "the irreparable damage it inflicted in the Great Schism". That doesn't sound anything like "the iconoclast controversy in the East led the Pope to intervene and centuries later that intervention was used as a precedent to establish papal primacy, which helped lead to the Great Schism". No. You're saying that iconoclasm was rejected in the West because of some pagan affiliation, and it was a key reason for the Schism.
Of course, you have absolutely no evidence to support this statement, which WAS pulled out of your ass based on its value. Iconic representations originated in the East, not in the West, and pagan conversion was ongoing in the East at the same time as it was in the West (the Bulgars, Serbs, Romanians and Russians were all being proselytized to by Eastern missionaries, such as Cyril and Methodius, who were active just as the second iconoclast wave was ending). There is no historical, cultural or geographic justification why the Western Church would be predisposed to attack iconoclasm any more (or less) than the Eastern Church.
So, we have a typical Joel rant that is dead wrong, making grandiose statements about iconoclasm that are dead wrong. So, if "the irreparable damage it inflicted in the Great Schism" is not your attempt at saying that you believed the Popes were attacking iconoclasm for the spurious reasons you give, and that the Papist position on iconoclasm was a decisive factor (or does "irreparable damage" mean something else to you than to the rest of the world), then just what were you trying to say, Joel? Try working on your writing skills.
Incorporating pagan deities as Catholic saints rather than attacking them as idols was vital to Christianitys spread throughout both Western Europe and the New World, so iconoclasm has less orthodoxy. The irreparable damage it inflicted in the Great Schism makes more sense on that basis. The Roman Catholic Church would have been naturally reluctant to surrender a missionary tool indispensable in Early Medieval northern and western Europe.
Note that you say "the irreparable damage it inflicted in the Great Schism". That doesn't sound anything like "the iconoclast controversy in the East led the Pope to intervene and centuries later that intervention was used as a precedent to establish papal primacy, which helped lead to the Great Schism". No. You're saying that iconoclasm was rejected in the West because of some pagan affiliation, and it was a key reason for the Schism.
Of course, you have absolutely no evidence to support this statement, which WAS pulled out of your ass based on its value. Iconic representations originated in the East, not in the West, and pagan conversion was ongoing in the East at the same time as it was in the West (the Bulgars, Serbs, Romanians and Russians were all being proselytized to by Eastern missionaries, such as Cyril and Methodius, who were active just as the second iconoclast wave was ending). There is no historical, cultural or geographic justification why the Western Church would be predisposed to attack iconoclasm any more (or less) than the Eastern Church.
So, we have a typical Joel rant that is dead wrong, making grandiose statements about iconoclasm that are dead wrong. So, if "the irreparable damage it inflicted in the Great Schism" is not your attempt at saying that you believed the Popes were attacking iconoclasm for the spurious reasons you give, and that the Papist position on iconoclasm was a decisive factor (or does "irreparable damage" mean something else to you than to the rest of the world), then just what were you trying to say, Joel? Try working on your writing skills.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 11/03/2012 at 05:16:13 AM
Atheism: The Iconoclasm of the West?
- 10/03/2012 05:42:56 AM
1582 Views
I think about as highly of athiesm as I do of christianity. *NM*
- 10/03/2012 05:54:20 AM
488 Views
I would chide you on that basis for having a love/hate relationship with God, but who does not?
- 10/03/2012 06:05:11 AM
790 Views
- 10/03/2012 06:05:11 AM
790 Views
If the divine made men...
- 10/03/2012 06:27:42 AM
788 Views
True, but by the same token, in denying our nature we deny the divine.
- 10/03/2012 06:57:40 AM
805 Views
I was actually just saying in Skype this is the first post you've made in a long time I've enjoyed.
- 10/03/2012 07:02:56 AM
830 Views
But you do comparable things all the time!
- 10/03/2012 08:35:31 AM
1018 Views
You've made this analogy before and it's still a bad one, those aren't comparable
- 10/03/2012 03:43:08 PM
924 Views
You said what I was thinking far more respectfully than I probably would have.
- 11/03/2012 12:14:55 AM
872 Views
You're right and wrong.
- 10/03/2012 05:09:32 PM
1272 Views
Re: You're right and wrong.
- 11/03/2012 12:28:25 AM
1165 Views
Nope, Buddhists are explicitly atheist and also explicitly Ontologically engaged
- 11/03/2012 01:39:20 AM
1153 Views
Actually, Buddhists are not explicitly atheist in the conventional sense of the world.
- 11/03/2012 02:42:36 AM
964 Views
I guess it is that old impersonalism that seems the great disappointment in most Eastern religions.
- 11/03/2012 04:48:54 AM
1043 Views
What you talkin' 'bout, Willis? *NM*
- 10/03/2012 06:29:35 PM
394 Views
I think he's saying that most arguments used on behalf of Atheism actually come from the Bible.
- 10/03/2012 06:58:50 PM
937 Views
Basically what Dan said; atheism as iconoclasm sans icons (unless we count religion as symbolism.)
- 11/03/2012 12:46:52 AM
919 Views
What exactly do you mean by "The irreparable damage it inflicted in the Great Schism"?
- 10/03/2012 07:57:59 PM
974 Views
That Byzantiums iconoclasm was one of the many wedges between it and Rome that led to the Schism.
- 11/03/2012 12:27:05 AM
897 Views
Bull. Shit.
- 11/03/2012 01:54:07 AM
1005 Views
I did not say it was decisive, but that it did irreparable damage to the relationship.
- 11/03/2012 04:23:43 AM
1011 Views
Bull. Shit.
- 11/03/2012 04:30:08 AM
878 Views
It is not like I just pulled it out of my rear, any more than my HS history text or Wikipedia did.
- 11/03/2012 04:57:31 AM
937 Views
Bull. Shit.
- 11/03/2012 05:14:01 AM
1003 Views
Irreparable damage is damage that cannot be repaired, not necessarily serious or fatal.
- 11/03/2012 10:34:57 AM
1068 Views
Mierda.del.Toro
- 11/03/2012 12:36:59 PM
979 Views
1969 may be "sometime back" in Roman Catholic history,but is ~a millenium after the time in question
- 12/03/2012 05:47:11 PM
1314 Views
You really must get steamed by anyone calling you out on your hyberbolic comments
- 12/03/2012 06:55:06 PM
1087 Views
On the contrary, I am not the one screaming "bullshit" in as many languages as possible.
- 13/03/2012 12:07:54 AM
1169 Views
ο κοπρος. του ταυρου.
- 11/03/2012 02:19:11 PM
1049 Views
Very edifying; can you do Mandarin or Swahili next?
- 12/03/2012 05:47:23 PM
949 Views
No. Even English seems to be beyond your grasp.
- 12/03/2012 06:29:50 PM
865 Views
Citing scripture does not justify telling me to kill myself.
- 13/03/2012 12:08:02 AM
1013 Views
Give it up already. You are wrong.
- 12/03/2012 12:53:37 AM
1157 Views
I will do the former at least; pretty sure this "discussion" has reached rock bottom.
- 13/03/2012 12:12:46 AM
843 Views
More or less your last line
- 11/03/2012 01:37:42 AM
891 Views
That is a broader argument, but more consistent with iconoclasms established meaning.
- 11/03/2012 05:12:12 AM
1046 Views
Would you include the iconoclasm that Joel cites in the canonical Judeo-Christian tradition as well?
- 11/03/2012 12:44:49 PM
895 Views

It is all Dans fault, really.