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I strongly disagree. Joel Send a noteboard - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM
Because they're both equally ineffectual. During the US elections you've participated in, there has never been a third party candidate with a chance of winning. Not even a REMOTE chance of winning. When you voted for them, you wasted your chance at influencing the political process every bit as much as did someone who refused to vote. Realistically speaking, you have two choices. Even if you think they're both bad, one DOES match your beliefs and opinions on government better than the other. Doesn't it make more sense to wield your (admittedly slight) political power to help that guy than to throw your vote away?

This kind of thing has always bugged me.

Third parties cannot gain relevance without 1) building a base and 2) meeting the electoral threshold mandated for federal election funds and debate participation. In that respect, it is a pity the Reform Party (which met the critical 15% threshold in 1996) splintered into irrelevance, but such are the perils of building a party around a candidate rather than a platform. Meanwhile, third parties can and do elect candidates to state and local office. Not only does that build a loyal electorate through familiarity and a record of performance in office, but if the states are "laboratories of democracy," such local representatives today must necessarily be tomorrows national candidates. That is what so nauseates me about the Libertarians fawning over first Paul and now Gary Johnson, life-long Republican office holders who only turn to the Libertarians when the Republicans will not have them. Same deal with the Greens and Cynthia McKinney four years ago (though she had the added liability of being a paranoid bigot.)

Parties are built from electoral and then policy results, but the latter necessitates the former. America has a surprisingly strong history of such third parties in both the original GOP and the Progressives TR and later LaFollette led away from it when it became too indulgent of laissez-faire business. Both third parties achieved substantial policy results that endure to this day (though the Reform Partys failure to block the NAFTA and WTO, or at least hold them to the standards expected of US business, threatens the Progressives achievements.) At the very least, voting for a third party that represents ones views allows the ability to vote ones conscience when neither of the two major party candidates do so.

I do not expect any third party to do well nationally until/unless America has Instant Runoff Voting, but grass roots party organizing/voting can provide the necessary support to implement such laws by state referendum. The 1992 and 2000 elections have liberals and conservatives alike living in fear of the spoiler effect IRV eliminates. Both major parties know that well enough to unite in opposing IRV, but at the grass roots level major party supporters have a vested interest in such laws (e.g. preventing another Clinton elected with 42% of the popular vote, or Gore losing despite a popular majority.) The real traction can still only come from third party supporters who know their preferred parties can never gain national office without IRV. However, those so inclined will never consider it practical if NO ONE votes for third parties, ever.

Ultimately, if you feel neither major party represents you, you should vote for a third party that does; there are enough of them you can probably find one, but if nothing else you can write in your own name as protest vote. If you feel that is just "throwing your vote away," then you can choose the lesser of two evils in one of the major parties. Either way, there is NO excuse for not voting at all. All that means is that you are content to let others govern you without your input, or that you deny the legitimacy of any government not chosen by you alone. Neither position has any place in a representative democracy or republic.
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Paul Ryan is selected as Republican VP candidate - 11/08/2012 05:01:47 PM 1932 Views
Personally? No, I'm not voting Republican at all this year. - 11/08/2012 05:18:06 PM 939 Views
Ya know that narrative of the right getting further right is pretty ridicolous - 11/08/2012 06:43:44 PM 907 Views
it could possibly be the "all or nothing" budget fights and gay marriage among other things - 11/08/2012 08:19:11 PM 948 Views
Yeah, I forgot the Dems are very enlightened about gay marriage now for what? 2 Months? - 11/08/2012 08:59:17 PM 1006 Views
+1 - Great post! *NM* - 12/08/2012 04:32:21 AM 556 Views
We're on a roll here Isaac. I agree with you again. - 12/08/2012 08:18:32 AM 944 Views
yet despite that, dems didn't put referenda and push bills discriminating against gay people - 12/08/2012 07:55:38 PM 1020 Views
They certainly have, they've just done it less and less recently - 12/08/2012 09:39:53 PM 904 Views
Fred Phelps is 82 - 13/08/2012 01:28:01 AM 843 Views
So is Pat Robertson *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:41:28 AM 529 Views
They're not enlightened at all. - 21/08/2012 02:04:09 PM 1109 Views
Agreed, but ya'll continue doing it anyway. - 11/08/2012 08:24:09 PM 931 Views
Thank you for making sense. - 12/08/2012 08:01:53 AM 911 Views
voting third party is a good idea - 11/08/2012 08:15:41 PM 902 Views
I'm sorry, but anyone that votes for Obama after the past 3 and 1/2 years is a moron..... - 12/08/2012 03:30:47 AM 852 Views
If you are proud of not voting, please shut up: The adults have a country to run. - 12/08/2012 04:11:49 AM 875 Views
Candidates have to earn my vote - I'm not a slave like you to the 2 party system. - 12/08/2012 04:24:02 AM 1009 Views
Who said anything about the two-party system? - 12/08/2012 04:29:36 AM 834 Views
No offense intended, but voting third party is as stupid as not voting. - 12/08/2012 04:42:28 AM 1096 Views
I strongly disagree. - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM 943 Views
as the saying goes "the lesser of two evils is still evil" - 12/08/2012 08:06:20 PM 930 Views
Nice asshatery. - 12/08/2012 07:56:57 AM 1087 Views
Wouldn't you love to have a "none of the above" option..... - 12/08/2012 03:36:54 PM 853 Views
Or you could use a PR system and act like responsible adults. *NM* - 12/08/2012 05:47:14 PM 439 Views
Oh dear. - 11/08/2012 06:26:07 PM 896 Views
I'm happy with it, I like Ryan - 11/08/2012 06:47:21 PM 919 Views
What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM 1052 Views
Re: What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:51:12 PM 1021 Views
ryan isn't going to help rmoney win wisconsin - 11/08/2012 08:21:27 PM 1017 Views
Picking Ryan was an olive branch to the GOP rank and file. - 11/08/2012 08:05:41 PM 1145 Views
definitely a bold pick but not going to help him enough in november - 11/08/2012 08:27:59 PM 967 Views
Who cares? He's hot. - 11/08/2012 11:53:42 PM 1111 Views
So are you a fan of David Cameron? - 12/08/2012 12:12:50 AM 774 Views
Lol. Nice one. *NM* - 12/08/2012 08:22:01 AM 486 Views
I actually said, "He's not hot enough." - 13/08/2012 01:15:58 PM 842 Views
- 13/08/2012 03:31:38 PM 982 Views
Wonderful choice! Truly wonderful.....check the video. - 12/08/2012 03:22:48 AM 850 Views
Nice video. - 12/08/2012 06:52:59 PM 941 Views
Can you explain your fascination with Ryans ideas, please? - 13/08/2012 04:08:35 AM 908 Views
No, it doesn't change my opinion any - 12/08/2012 07:50:21 AM 1022 Views
I hear even the DNC has rejected its TN Senate nominee. - 12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM 940 Views
Yes, they disavowed him - 12/08/2012 08:00:33 PM 940 Views
Does not work in the US - 13/08/2012 01:17:58 AM 892 Views
We do not need most of the populace to cast protest votes, only most voters. - 13/08/2012 01:33:41 AM 848 Views
Your distinction misses my greater point - 13/08/2012 01:51:26 AM 889 Views
*shrugs* Vote absentee then. - 13/08/2012 02:28:32 AM 930 Views
I was going to vote Romney anyway, so no, it doesn't change anything. - 12/08/2012 10:39:15 PM 922 Views
But I'm guessing you're glad with Ryan? Prefer him over the alternatives? Or not? - 12/08/2012 10:49:35 PM 1064 Views
I disagree - 13/08/2012 12:52:07 AM 943 Views
Bloomberg has imploded - 13/08/2012 07:12:56 PM 851 Views
Bloomberg has become a national laughingstock. - 13/08/2012 08:13:24 PM 931 Views
Not as much as either Obama or Romney, surely. - 13/08/2012 08:23:41 PM 922 Views
Makes sense for you. You are Romney's target audience. - 13/08/2012 01:19:26 PM 861 Views
What should Obama have done? - 13/08/2012 07:31:23 PM 909 Views
And how much of that do you expect from Romney? - 14/08/2012 10:21:33 AM 1229 Views
Certainly more than from Obama. - 16/08/2012 12:00:19 AM 840 Views
Mmm, Objectivism. Another reason for me to vote Obama. - 12/08/2012 11:00:34 PM 1018 Views
But doesn't he say he detests Rand? - 12/08/2012 11:53:47 PM 760 Views
Link to audio of Paul Ryans address to The Atlas Society. - 13/08/2012 03:37:27 AM 1057 Views
Or you could have just read my response which posted prior to yours - 13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM 849 Views
Sorry, I completely missed your link. - 13/08/2012 03:09:11 PM 955 Views
Don't get me wrong - 13/08/2012 12:53:10 AM 871 Views
Actually I believe he promised to vote for Romney if I did - 13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM 1016 Views
What an amusing retrospective. - 13/08/2012 04:20:02 AM 1019 Views
Uh... how exactly did you get to spending and budget timelines? - 13/08/2012 04:59:45 AM 853 Views
Tangentially, of course. - 13/08/2012 05:08:18 AM 886 Views
I tried reading it again, but my eyes glazed over when you started babbling about lesbian covens. - 14/08/2012 12:30:03 AM 800 Views
It was a hyperbolic reference to the extreme left (one stolen from Matt Groening, btw.) - 14/08/2012 10:12:09 AM 859 Views
Interesting. - 14/08/2012 11:34:30 AM 947 Views
They have a pill for that now. - 14/08/2012 01:14:39 PM 994 Views
I'm pretty sure the solution is you learning elementary composition. *NM* - 15/08/2012 11:33:57 PM 570 Views
Your willful reading incomprehension is neither my fault nor problem. - 16/08/2012 07:40:46 PM 958 Views
I don't think you can succinctly do anything. *NM* - 16/08/2012 09:33:38 PM 568 Views
I just did. - 16/08/2012 09:36:21 PM 924 Views
EDIT: ACK! Hoist on my own petard! - 14/08/2012 12:25:27 AM 867 Views
No birth control, no right to choose, no planned parenthood? - 13/08/2012 01:58:51 PM 790 Views
They are really doing a public service that way. *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:26:39 PM 407 Views
I agree with your statements - 14/08/2012 12:53:41 AM 1010 Views
It's mostly nonsense - 14/08/2012 04:46:11 AM 934 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 02:54:06 PM 1137 Views
'Nonsense' refers to the thing said about the religious right by the media - 14/08/2012 04:01:47 PM 1152 Views
I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 14/08/2012 06:30:23 PM 1190 Views
Re: I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 15/08/2012 01:45:59 AM 894 Views
I have to keep this short, because I am on the iPad. - 15/08/2012 05:38:48 AM 849 Views
Triple reply chain is usually a good point for the trim-edit anyway - 15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM 1022 Views
Or shows it's time to quit. - 15/08/2012 10:20:17 PM 1296 Views
Agreed - 15/08/2012 10:54:05 PM 801 Views
The question, as for Tom, is what you believe Romney would improve for small businesses. - 14/08/2012 01:38:29 PM 967 Views
I am aware of that, thank you. And I don't distill my choice down to small business, either. - 14/08/2012 02:24:24 PM 1005 Views
I see your point, but... - 14/08/2012 02:30:22 PM 782 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 03:09:18 PM 975 Views
Are you really going to let Obama con you into voting for him again? - 21/08/2012 02:00:06 PM 795 Views
I honestly haven't decided. - 21/08/2012 04:13:44 PM 1150 Views
None of that is that important. - 14/08/2012 08:53:10 PM 960 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 15/08/2012 02:21:55 PM 530 Views
Bullshit - 21/08/2012 01:46:42 PM 973 Views
This makes me more likely to vote R this year. - 15/08/2012 02:31:06 PM 881 Views

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