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I strongly disagree. Joel Send a noteboard - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM
Because they're both equally ineffectual. During the US elections you've participated in, there has never been a third party candidate with a chance of winning. Not even a REMOTE chance of winning. When you voted for them, you wasted your chance at influencing the political process every bit as much as did someone who refused to vote. Realistically speaking, you have two choices. Even if you think they're both bad, one DOES match your beliefs and opinions on government better than the other. Doesn't it make more sense to wield your (admittedly slight) political power to help that guy than to throw your vote away?

This kind of thing has always bugged me.

Third parties cannot gain relevance without 1) building a base and 2) meeting the electoral threshold mandated for federal election funds and debate participation. In that respect, it is a pity the Reform Party (which met the critical 15% threshold in 1996) splintered into irrelevance, but such are the perils of building a party around a candidate rather than a platform. Meanwhile, third parties can and do elect candidates to state and local office. Not only does that build a loyal electorate through familiarity and a record of performance in office, but if the states are "laboratories of democracy," such local representatives today must necessarily be tomorrows national candidates. That is what so nauseates me about the Libertarians fawning over first Paul and now Gary Johnson, life-long Republican office holders who only turn to the Libertarians when the Republicans will not have them. Same deal with the Greens and Cynthia McKinney four years ago (though she had the added liability of being a paranoid bigot.)

Parties are built from electoral and then policy results, but the latter necessitates the former. America has a surprisingly strong history of such third parties in both the original GOP and the Progressives TR and later LaFollette led away from it when it became too indulgent of laissez-faire business. Both third parties achieved substantial policy results that endure to this day (though the Reform Partys failure to block the NAFTA and WTO, or at least hold them to the standards expected of US business, threatens the Progressives achievements.) At the very least, voting for a third party that represents ones views allows the ability to vote ones conscience when neither of the two major party candidates do so.

I do not expect any third party to do well nationally until/unless America has Instant Runoff Voting, but grass roots party organizing/voting can provide the necessary support to implement such laws by state referendum. The 1992 and 2000 elections have liberals and conservatives alike living in fear of the spoiler effect IRV eliminates. Both major parties know that well enough to unite in opposing IRV, but at the grass roots level major party supporters have a vested interest in such laws (e.g. preventing another Clinton elected with 42% of the popular vote, or Gore losing despite a popular majority.) The real traction can still only come from third party supporters who know their preferred parties can never gain national office without IRV. However, those so inclined will never consider it practical if NO ONE votes for third parties, ever.

Ultimately, if you feel neither major party represents you, you should vote for a third party that does; there are enough of them you can probably find one, but if nothing else you can write in your own name as protest vote. If you feel that is just "throwing your vote away," then you can choose the lesser of two evils in one of the major parties. Either way, there is NO excuse for not voting at all. All that means is that you are content to let others govern you without your input, or that you deny the legitimacy of any government not chosen by you alone. Neither position has any place in a representative democracy or republic.
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Paul Ryan is selected as Republican VP candidate - 11/08/2012 05:01:47 PM 2065 Views
Personally? No, I'm not voting Republican at all this year. - 11/08/2012 05:18:06 PM 1048 Views
Ya know that narrative of the right getting further right is pretty ridicolous - 11/08/2012 06:43:44 PM 1015 Views
it could possibly be the "all or nothing" budget fights and gay marriage among other things - 11/08/2012 08:19:11 PM 1054 Views
Yeah, I forgot the Dems are very enlightened about gay marriage now for what? 2 Months? - 11/08/2012 08:59:17 PM 1118 Views
+1 - Great post! *NM* - 12/08/2012 04:32:21 AM 617 Views
We're on a roll here Isaac. I agree with you again. - 12/08/2012 08:18:32 AM 1057 Views
yet despite that, dems didn't put referenda and push bills discriminating against gay people - 12/08/2012 07:55:38 PM 1127 Views
They certainly have, they've just done it less and less recently - 12/08/2012 09:39:53 PM 1009 Views
Fred Phelps is 82 - 13/08/2012 01:28:01 AM 948 Views
So is Pat Robertson *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:41:28 AM 598 Views
They're not enlightened at all. - 21/08/2012 02:04:09 PM 1213 Views
Agreed, but ya'll continue doing it anyway. - 11/08/2012 08:24:09 PM 1036 Views
Thank you for making sense. - 12/08/2012 08:01:53 AM 1011 Views
voting third party is a good idea - 11/08/2012 08:15:41 PM 1011 Views
I'm sorry, but anyone that votes for Obama after the past 3 and 1/2 years is a moron..... - 12/08/2012 03:30:47 AM 975 Views
If you are proud of not voting, please shut up: The adults have a country to run. - 12/08/2012 04:11:49 AM 978 Views
Candidates have to earn my vote - I'm not a slave like you to the 2 party system. - 12/08/2012 04:24:02 AM 1146 Views
Who said anything about the two-party system? - 12/08/2012 04:29:36 AM 942 Views
No offense intended, but voting third party is as stupid as not voting. - 12/08/2012 04:42:28 AM 1196 Views
I strongly disagree. - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM 1055 Views
as the saying goes "the lesser of two evils is still evil" - 12/08/2012 08:06:20 PM 1035 Views
Nice asshatery. - 12/08/2012 07:56:57 AM 1203 Views
Wouldn't you love to have a "none of the above" option..... - 12/08/2012 03:36:54 PM 963 Views
Or you could use a PR system and act like responsible adults. *NM* - 12/08/2012 05:47:14 PM 492 Views
Oh dear. - 11/08/2012 06:26:07 PM 1024 Views
I'm happy with it, I like Ryan - 11/08/2012 06:47:21 PM 1021 Views
What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM 1152 Views
Re: What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:51:12 PM 1123 Views
ryan isn't going to help rmoney win wisconsin - 11/08/2012 08:21:27 PM 1140 Views
Picking Ryan was an olive branch to the GOP rank and file. - 11/08/2012 08:05:41 PM 1260 Views
definitely a bold pick but not going to help him enough in november - 11/08/2012 08:27:59 PM 1071 Views
Who cares? He's hot. - 11/08/2012 11:53:42 PM 1230 Views
So are you a fan of David Cameron? - 12/08/2012 12:12:50 AM 875 Views
Lol. Nice one. *NM* - 12/08/2012 08:22:01 AM 536 Views
I actually said, "He's not hot enough." - 13/08/2012 01:15:58 PM 946 Views
- 13/08/2012 03:31:38 PM 1079 Views
Wonderful choice! Truly wonderful.....check the video. - 12/08/2012 03:22:48 AM 948 Views
Nice video. - 12/08/2012 06:52:59 PM 1048 Views
Can you explain your fascination with Ryans ideas, please? - 13/08/2012 04:08:35 AM 1019 Views
No, it doesn't change my opinion any - 12/08/2012 07:50:21 AM 1124 Views
I hear even the DNC has rejected its TN Senate nominee. - 12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM 1035 Views
Yes, they disavowed him - 12/08/2012 08:00:33 PM 1055 Views
Does not work in the US - 13/08/2012 01:17:58 AM 990 Views
We do not need most of the populace to cast protest votes, only most voters. - 13/08/2012 01:33:41 AM 953 Views
Your distinction misses my greater point - 13/08/2012 01:51:26 AM 1008 Views
*shrugs* Vote absentee then. - 13/08/2012 02:28:32 AM 1029 Views
I was going to vote Romney anyway, so no, it doesn't change anything. - 12/08/2012 10:39:15 PM 1020 Views
But I'm guessing you're glad with Ryan? Prefer him over the alternatives? Or not? - 12/08/2012 10:49:35 PM 1164 Views
I disagree - 13/08/2012 12:52:07 AM 1056 Views
Bloomberg has imploded - 13/08/2012 07:12:56 PM 948 Views
Bloomberg has become a national laughingstock. - 13/08/2012 08:13:24 PM 1036 Views
Not as much as either Obama or Romney, surely. - 13/08/2012 08:23:41 PM 1033 Views
Makes sense for you. You are Romney's target audience. - 13/08/2012 01:19:26 PM 979 Views
What should Obama have done? - 13/08/2012 07:31:23 PM 1019 Views
And how much of that do you expect from Romney? - 14/08/2012 10:21:33 AM 1337 Views
Certainly more than from Obama. - 16/08/2012 12:00:19 AM 939 Views
Mmm, Objectivism. Another reason for me to vote Obama. - 12/08/2012 11:00:34 PM 1127 Views
But doesn't he say he detests Rand? - 12/08/2012 11:53:47 PM 875 Views
No he doesn't disavow Ayn Rand, he still believes in her - 13/08/2012 01:15:34 AM 1042 Views
Good to know. - 13/08/2012 08:42:22 AM 1050 Views
Link to audio of Paul Ryans address to The Atlas Society. - 13/08/2012 03:37:27 AM 1166 Views
Or you could have just read my response which posted prior to yours - 13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM 963 Views
Sorry, I completely missed your link. - 13/08/2012 03:09:11 PM 1060 Views
Don't get me wrong - 13/08/2012 12:53:10 AM 993 Views
Actually I believe he promised to vote for Romney if I did - 13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM 1126 Views
What an amusing retrospective. - 13/08/2012 04:20:02 AM 1145 Views
Uh... how exactly did you get to spending and budget timelines? - 13/08/2012 04:59:45 AM 961 Views
Tangentially, of course. - 13/08/2012 05:08:18 AM 993 Views
I tried reading it again, but my eyes glazed over when you started babbling about lesbian covens. - 14/08/2012 12:30:03 AM 902 Views
It was a hyperbolic reference to the extreme left (one stolen from Matt Groening, btw.) - 14/08/2012 10:12:09 AM 976 Views
Interesting. - 14/08/2012 11:34:30 AM 1065 Views
They have a pill for that now. - 14/08/2012 01:14:39 PM 1104 Views
I'm pretty sure the solution is you learning elementary composition. *NM* - 15/08/2012 11:33:57 PM 619 Views
Your willful reading incomprehension is neither my fault nor problem. - 16/08/2012 07:40:46 PM 1064 Views
I don't think you can succinctly do anything. *NM* - 16/08/2012 09:33:38 PM 628 Views
I just did. - 16/08/2012 09:36:21 PM 1018 Views
EDIT: ACK! Hoist on my own petard! - 14/08/2012 12:25:27 AM 970 Views
No birth control, no right to choose, no planned parenthood? - 13/08/2012 01:58:51 PM 916 Views
They are really doing a public service that way. *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:26:39 PM 463 Views
I agree with your statements - 14/08/2012 12:53:41 AM 1116 Views
It's mostly nonsense - 14/08/2012 04:46:11 AM 1046 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 02:54:06 PM 1249 Views
'Nonsense' refers to the thing said about the religious right by the media - 14/08/2012 04:01:47 PM 1266 Views
I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 14/08/2012 06:30:23 PM 1303 Views
Re: I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 15/08/2012 01:45:59 AM 994 Views
I have to keep this short, because I am on the iPad. - 15/08/2012 05:38:48 AM 956 Views
Triple reply chain is usually a good point for the trim-edit anyway - 15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM 1133 Views
Or shows it's time to quit. - 15/08/2012 10:20:17 PM 1446 Views
Agreed - 15/08/2012 10:54:05 PM 906 Views
The question, as for Tom, is what you believe Romney would improve for small businesses. - 14/08/2012 01:38:29 PM 1079 Views
I am aware of that, thank you. And I don't distill my choice down to small business, either. - 14/08/2012 02:24:24 PM 1120 Views
I see your point, but... - 14/08/2012 02:30:22 PM 900 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 03:09:18 PM 1084 Views
Are you really going to let Obama con you into voting for him again? - 21/08/2012 02:00:06 PM 931 Views
I honestly haven't decided. - 21/08/2012 04:13:44 PM 1254 Views
None of that is that important. - 14/08/2012 08:53:10 PM 1067 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 15/08/2012 02:21:55 PM 605 Views
Bullshit - 21/08/2012 01:46:42 PM 1092 Views
This makes me more likely to vote R this year. - 15/08/2012 02:31:06 PM 982 Views

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