Usually only in degree, not kind, though I mostly had the former in mind.
Joel Send a noteboard - 12/08/2012 07:27:54 PM
I'm not sure if you're including both under the same heading but where I'm at people have about 70 elected officials each and on 2,4,and 6 year terms that makes for 20-25 people each general election, plus ballot issues, levies, the primaries and so on. There's nothing wrong with leaving a blank mark if you're looking at an Appellate Court race and you've got no clue who either is. I pull up a digital copy of my ballot in advance and research the people but even then I'll forget who is who sometimes and that wasn't an option till fairly recently, so I'd leave it blank. I do wish ballots would have a 'none' option on them to make me feel a bit safer about blanks if a recount comes up and to give a visual suggestion to people who don't know and feel weird about leaving it blank, but there's nothing wrong with leaving blanks, even on the presidency.
Most races usually have at least SOME clues to each candidates positions, even if only party affiliation (obviously that does not apply to strictly non-partisan races; I do wonder how third party candidates would fare if ballots did not list party affiliation.) I cannot fault people not voting in races on which they are wholly ignorant; I fault their easily eliminated ignorance, for which they are thus to blame. I share your support for a "none" option, because that would allow disaffected voters to register disapproval of all candidates in a meaningful way, rather than just conceding undesirable candidates default victories.
Now as for flat out non-voters, that really depends on their reasons. If its laziness then its one thing, but if they simply view themselves as not knowing enough and not having the time then I view them as having given me part of their vote. 850 odd reg voters in my own village, only 200-400 show up for most elections, the other 400-650 people divide their votes to me and the others, makes my vote locally worth 2 to 4 times as much. I research my stuff so my share of their vote is in good hands. We really shouldn't push at people to vote, we should stress that they should seek to be an informed voter and not hesitate to pass, on a single ballot issue especially, if they don't feel informed. Now strategically that's not such a good idea, as anyone doing a 'get out the vote' movement can effectively steal an election by pushing at people and giving them a one-sided take on things, but it still behooves us as a culture not to try to push the apathetic or lazy into making decisions for the rest of us. Rule by the people sounds nice, but rule by the voluntarily enthusiastic and informed people works better, IMHO.
Well, I am certainly not pushing uninformed voting; perhaps I give Americans too much credit, but voters informing themselves is implicit in my advocacy of voting. Their non-involvement certainly gives our votes greater weight though, hence I find it absurd to say criticizing non-voting is "denying their voice." Saying no one can hear those who voluntarily don, demand, muzzles is not silencing them, only acknowledging they silenced themselves. Saying one refuses to vote because of ignorance is like saying, "I only shot that guard because he tried to stop me robbing the bank." Either way, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
In this case we are not dealing with ignorant people afraid of creating signal noise, but supposedly knowledgeable people eagerly creating a different kind of signal noise. They do not lack knowledge or preferences, only refuse to voice either, then complain government does not listen to them. Politicians are just like everyone else: They pay little attention to those not speaking to them (particularly given all the others frequently and loudly speaking to them.)
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Paul Ryan is selected as Republican VP candidate
- 11/08/2012 05:01:47 PM
1961 Views
Personally? No, I'm not voting Republican at all this year.
- 11/08/2012 05:18:06 PM
955 Views
Ya know that narrative of the right getting further right is pretty ridicolous
- 11/08/2012 06:43:44 PM
921 Views
it could possibly be the "all or nothing" budget fights and gay marriage among other things
- 11/08/2012 08:19:11 PM
963 Views
Yeah, I forgot the Dems are very enlightened about gay marriage now for what? 2 Months?
- 11/08/2012 08:59:17 PM
1035 Views
yet despite that, dems didn't put referenda and push bills discriminating against gay people
- 12/08/2012 07:55:38 PM
1037 Views
They certainly have, they've just done it less and less recently
- 12/08/2012 09:39:53 PM
922 Views
I dunno, but from my perspective (and this is from one who doesn't follow politics closely)
- 11/08/2012 08:32:43 PM
1157 Views
I'm sorry, but anyone that votes for Obama after the past 3 and 1/2 years is a moron.....
- 12/08/2012 03:30:47 AM
867 Views
If you are proud of not voting, please shut up: The adults have a country to run.
- 12/08/2012 04:11:49 AM
892 Views
Candidates have to earn my vote - I'm not a slave like you to the 2 party system.
- 12/08/2012 04:24:02 AM
1027 Views
Who said anything about the two-party system?
- 12/08/2012 04:29:36 AM
850 Views
No offense intended, but voting third party is as stupid as not voting.
- 12/08/2012 04:42:28 AM
1109 Views
I'm with Joel on this. There's a big difference between voting third party and not voting.
- 12/08/2012 07:31:29 PM
1019 Views
Nice asshatery.
- 12/08/2012 07:56:57 AM
1102 Views
Wouldn't you love to have a "none of the above" option.....
- 12/08/2012 03:36:54 PM
867 Views
Or you could use a PR system and act like responsible adults. *NM*
- 12/08/2012 05:47:14 PM
447 Views
Not voting sends no message but "we will let politicians do as they please."
- 12/08/2012 05:12:55 PM
1304 Views
Well there's a difference between not voting at all and not voting in one race
- 12/08/2012 05:55:47 PM
1068 Views
Usually only in degree, not kind, though I mostly had the former in mind.
- 12/08/2012 07:27:54 PM
1004 Views
I hope that most of the disenchanted Obama 08 suppoerters feel the same way *NM*
- 13/08/2012 11:27:15 AM
435 Views
I'm happy with it, I like Ryan
- 11/08/2012 06:47:21 PM
933 Views
What a shock.
- 11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM
1068 Views
- 11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM
1068 Views
Most Republicans are fine with gutting Medicare.
- 11/08/2012 08:31:03 PM
1158 Views
Everyone with an ounce of common sense is okay with "gutting" Medicare.....
- 12/08/2012 03:37:17 AM
877 Views
The only thing bankrupting Medicare is unsustainable US healthcare costs eating 20% of US GDP.
- 12/08/2012 03:56:28 AM
1198 Views
Silly comment - 30% of Medicare is FRAUD.....and the program is fatally flawed.
- 12/08/2012 04:09:26 AM
1014 Views
So private insurance costs are really growing SIXTY percent faster?!
- 12/08/2012 04:24:49 AM
1003 Views
Medicare worked for 50 years and SS for 80 because most people were DYING before 65.
- 12/08/2012 04:29:26 AM
805 Views
Eligibility age for both must increase (SSs has, but not enough.) They are not "unsustainable."
- 12/08/2012 04:31:57 AM
799 Views
definitely a bold pick but not going to help him enough in november
- 11/08/2012 08:27:59 PM
982 Views
Since I forgot you asked Americans if it would change our votes: No, still voting Jill Stein (Green)
- 11/08/2012 11:07:12 PM
872 Views
Who cares? He's hot.
- 11/08/2012 11:53:42 PM
1124 Views
I actually said, "He's not hot enough."
- 13/08/2012 01:15:58 PM
857 Views
On the plus side, you need not fear Ryans failure to mention abortion and contraception.
- 13/08/2012 03:17:45 PM
1044 Views
Legolas a question for you, what is your opinion of George W Bush Social Security Plans in 2005?
- 12/08/2012 01:03:24 AM
871 Views
Wonderful choice! Truly wonderful.....check the video.
- 12/08/2012 03:22:48 AM
862 Views
No, it doesn't change my opinion any
- 12/08/2012 07:50:21 AM
1035 Views
I hear even the DNC has rejected its TN Senate nominee.
- 12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM
954 Views
- 12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM
954 Views
Yes, they disavowed him
- 12/08/2012 08:00:33 PM
952 Views
Apparently the TN Democratic Party agrees voters should write in someone elses name.
- 12/08/2012 08:34:46 PM
923 Views
Does not work in the US
- 13/08/2012 01:17:58 AM
905 Views
We do not need most of the populace to cast protest votes, only most voters.
- 13/08/2012 01:33:41 AM
863 Views
I was going to vote Romney anyway, so no, it doesn't change anything.
- 12/08/2012 10:39:15 PM
934 Views
But I'm guessing you're glad with Ryan? Prefer him over the alternatives? Or not?
- 12/08/2012 10:49:35 PM
1080 Views
Makes sense for you. You are Romney's target audience.
- 13/08/2012 01:19:26 PM
875 Views
What should Obama have done?
- 13/08/2012 07:31:23 PM
925 Views
Mmm, Objectivism. Another reason for me to vote Obama.
- 12/08/2012 11:00:34 PM
1031 Views
But doesn't he say he detests Rand?
- 12/08/2012 11:53:47 PM
774 Views
No he doesn't disavow Ayn Rand, he still believes in her
- 13/08/2012 01:15:34 AM
947 Views
that is pretty mild of you campare it to the radical influence in Obama's life *NM*
- 13/08/2012 11:35:52 AM
543 Views
Ah, the classic "it is OK because their guy rapes puppies, too, even though he does not" defense.
- 13/08/2012 03:23:29 PM
816 Views
Obama doesn't have a history of openly endorsing the views of said radicals. *NM*
- 14/08/2012 12:32:52 AM
589 Views
he has a much closer and more personal realtionship with radicals than Romney or Ryan *NM*
- 20/08/2012 03:54:17 AM
548 Views
Link to audio of Paul Ryans address to The Atlas Society.
- 13/08/2012 03:37:27 AM
1071 Views
Or you could have just read my response which posted prior to yours
- 13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM
864 Views
- 13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM
864 Views
Don't get me wrong
- 13/08/2012 12:53:10 AM
883 Views
Actually I believe he promised to vote for Romney if I did
- 13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM
1030 Views
- 13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM
1030 Views
What an amusing retrospective.
- 13/08/2012 04:20:02 AM
1033 Views
I tried reading it again, but my eyes glazed over when you started babbling about lesbian covens.
- 14/08/2012 12:30:03 AM
817 Views
It was a hyperbolic reference to the extreme left (one stolen from Matt Groening, btw.)
- 14/08/2012 10:12:09 AM
874 Views
Interesting.
- 14/08/2012 11:34:30 AM
961 Views
They have a pill for that now.
- 14/08/2012 01:14:39 PM
1009 Views
I'm pretty sure the solution is you learning elementary composition. *NM*
- 15/08/2012 11:33:57 PM
578 Views
Your willful reading incomprehension is neither my fault nor problem.
- 16/08/2012 07:40:46 PM
975 Views
Disillusioned, sure. But I don't recall ever considering voting Republican.
- 14/08/2012 12:31:17 AM
955 Views
No birth control, no right to choose, no planned parenthood?
- 13/08/2012 01:58:51 PM
804 Views
I saw a theory just after the announcement speculating Ryan was chosen as a scapegoat.
- 13/08/2012 03:33:56 PM
971 Views
I agree with your statements
- 14/08/2012 12:53:41 AM
1022 Views
It's mostly nonsense
- 14/08/2012 04:46:11 AM
952 Views
Well
- 14/08/2012 02:54:06 PM
1152 Views
'Nonsense' refers to the thing said about the religious right by the media
- 14/08/2012 04:01:47 PM
1169 Views
I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word.
- 14/08/2012 06:30:23 PM
1203 Views
Re: I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word.
- 15/08/2012 01:45:59 AM
908 Views
I have to keep this short, because I am on the iPad.
- 15/08/2012 05:38:48 AM
861 Views
Triple reply chain is usually a good point for the trim-edit anyway
- 15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM
1034 Views
- 15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM
1034 Views
The question, as for Tom, is what you believe Romney would improve for small businesses.
- 14/08/2012 01:38:29 PM
983 Views
I am aware of that, thank you. And I don't distill my choice down to small business, either.
- 14/08/2012 02:24:24 PM
1019 Views
I see your point, but...
- 14/08/2012 02:30:22 PM
800 Views
Well
- 14/08/2012 03:09:18 PM
989 Views
Are you really going to let Obama con you into voting for him again?
- 21/08/2012 02:00:06 PM
825 Views
Expanding our perspective does not improve our options much, sadly.
- 14/08/2012 04:23:48 PM
932 Views


*NM*
