So.
George Galloway, British left wing politician and general arse -
The Respect MP then suggested one of the women had claimed she invited Mr Assange back to her flat, had consensual sex with him and then "woke up to him having sex with her again - something which can happen, you know".
"Some people believe that when you go to bed with somebody, take off your clothes, and have sex with them and then fall asleep, you're already in the sex game with them," he continued.
"It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said, 'do you mind if I do it again?'
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"It might be really sordid and bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9490122/George-Galloway-Julian-Assange-rape-allegations-nothing-but-bad-sexual-etiquette.html
Is there a point at which consent is assumed to have elapsed then, or does the woman (or man) have to formerly state it?
Todd Atkin, American right wing politician -
"Well you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well how do you, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/08/19/republican-senate-nominee-todd-akin-victims-of-legitimate-rape-dont-get-pregnant/
(some context on Atkin's use of "legitimate rape" might be that previously he only supported abortion in the case of "forcible rape", in a bill co-authored with Ryan)
Hard to know which one is stupider... though the bright side for Galloway is that it might be better to be remembered as the guy who made the stupid comment about rape rather than the one who sucked up to Saddam. Maybe.
I know people who have been quite appreciative of waking up to sex with someone a few hours after consensual sex. Of course, refusing sex is just that, regardless of what happened previously, but only those present can be certain whether such refusal occurred.
Akins comment would benefit from more context, particularly given the existing context of abortion bans that allow no rape exception. Sex with anyone who does not or cannot consent is obviously rape. On the other hand, men and women alike joke about beer-goggling, but men never cry, "rape!" on waking up next to someone they would never be seen with sober. They also do not explain pregnancy as rape to avoid the fear/embarrassment of telling their parents they are sexually active. Men do not seek abortions by claiming consensual sex was rape they feared to report. As with any crime, accusations are not proof, and proof can be difficult to obtain even when crimes occur.
Ultimately, the frequent difficulty of establishing rape to be just that is just one more reason goverment should not usurp control over peoples bodies.
I do find it interesting, given the other serious charges flying both ways this year, that Akins ambiguous comment may be what costs the GOP a Senate majority.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
Rape - British left wing politician takes on American right wing politician in stupidest comment off
22/08/2012 11:03:50 PM
- 955 Views
Galloway - I'll always remember him for being a Cat to be honest.
22/08/2012 11:14:58 PM
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That is second on my list of things I remember about him, probably down to third now.
22/08/2012 11:21:17 PM
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People who support abortion only for rape are the most retarded in the whole debate
23/08/2012 01:05:17 AM
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Bullshit
23/08/2012 05:01:24 AM
- 418 Views
That's an interesting variation with some legitimacy, though not compelling, to me anyway
23/08/2012 07:25:50 AM
- 436 Views
That is a dangerous line of logic.
23/08/2012 09:26:25 PM
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Okay, that really wasn't connected to my comments
24/08/2012 02:39:21 AM
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Sure it was, but we can do it your way.
24/08/2012 04:10:37 AM
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Yet you don't, you jump the gun here too
24/08/2012 04:37:02 AM
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I was trying to cut to the chase; like I say, I followed your logic: I just disliked where it led.
24/08/2012 06:10:40 AM
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Disliking the conclusion doesn't invalidate the logic, and stop veering out of the debate boundary
24/08/2012 06:43:43 AM
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No, the logics invalidity does that, though you do not seem to like its conclusion either.
24/08/2012 07:48:21 AM
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I'm not even sure what that means
25/08/2012 12:38:56 AM
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The logic is invalid because invalid, however either of us feels about where it leads.
25/08/2012 10:37:34 PM
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Okay, we're done here
26/08/2012 05:36:28 AM
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Quotes are not my opinion.
26/08/2012 06:37:19 AM
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You'd really benefit from post-secondary education.
26/08/2012 12:14:02 PM
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Further post-secondary education, you mean; probably so, though not for the reasons you stated.
26/08/2012 08:20:45 PM
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Haven't you and Joel had about the same amount of post-secondary education, actually?
27/08/2012 01:31:43 AM
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It has nothing to do with consequences or responsibility. It's about life & privacy. Period
23/08/2012 12:04:55 PM
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To be honest, I think people MIGHT be overreacting to both comments.
23/08/2012 01:33:54 AM
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Really? *NM*
23/08/2012 06:33:46 AM
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Yeah.
23/08/2012 06:40:05 AM
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I expect it is more of a "stating the obvious" response.
23/08/2012 02:01:18 PM
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Heh, I didn't think so.
23/08/2012 05:44:55 PM
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I said Akins comments needed MORE context.
23/08/2012 08:50:09 PM
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Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 10:28:50 PM
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Re: Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 11:04:40 PM
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Re: Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 11:08:46 PM
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Science sometimes produces shocking discoveries.
23/08/2012 11:28:47 PM
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And sometimes one doctor with an agenda pulls "facts" out of the air
23/08/2012 11:37:37 PM
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This
23/08/2012 08:50:43 PM
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Eh
23/08/2012 10:37:15 PM
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I read it the same way Jen did
23/08/2012 08:49:16 PM
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Why?
23/08/2012 08:51:59 PM
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See your reply here - the bit before the comma then the bit after it.
23/08/2012 09:06:20 PM
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You can see where there's room for doubt in that though, surely.
23/08/2012 09:20:19 PM
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I accept there are exceptions under some circumstances - but they are exceptions, not the rule.
23/08/2012 09:44:36 PM
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Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 10:28:13 PM
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Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 10:50:59 PM
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Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 11:15:50 PM
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Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 11:28:56 PM
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couple things
24/08/2012 01:57:04 AM
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Re: couple things
24/08/2012 02:26:23 PM
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You may be talking about Galloway and not Assange, but Galloway was talking about Assange.
24/08/2012 06:28:00 PM
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I can
23/08/2012 11:05:05 PM
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OK
23/08/2012 09:35:35 PM
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Bullshit.
23/08/2012 10:00:54 PM
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Re: Bullshit.
23/08/2012 10:52:02 PM
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I don't know about Galloway but Akin is being made to pay for his commnets
23/08/2012 04:37:12 PM
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Um, I'm not sure about that last bit
23/08/2012 10:43:15 PM
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this issue has been discussed none stop for two days and this almost never mentioned
24/08/2012 12:28:25 PM
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Yeah, I'm curious about that last point as well.
24/08/2012 02:53:43 AM
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McCaskills campaign ran ads during the GOP primary calling Akin the "most conservative" candidate.
24/08/2012 03:33:18 AM
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Interesting.
24/08/2012 04:49:51 AM
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Yeah, that about covers it; personally, I am developing a grudging respect for Akin.
24/08/2012 06:30:43 AM
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no it isn't kinda true
24/08/2012 12:50:53 PM
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The MO GOP voters who nominated him for being "most conservative" think it is.
25/08/2012 10:52:02 PM
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