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I have never used the Law of Averages to mean anything except the (proven) Law of Large Numbers. Joel Send a noteboard - 05/10/2012 09:22:56 AM
There is no evidence to support your conclusion.

I was a bit surprised Wikipedia defined the Law of Averages to reference small rather than large data sets. "Averages" implies large data sets; I will not say Wikipedias usage is "wrong," but it is incredibly stupid and counterintuitive. Regardless of nomenclature though, the Law of Large Numbers is proven, and that is the concept I have invoked throughout this discussion. The more polls we have, and the more one candidate leads, the less likely the overall result is data noise.

Since February, Romney has been nationally polled against Obama 136 times: He led 23, tied 12 and trailed 101. Chance says it should be 50/50, so those results lean heavily toward Obama. As you note, polls are not random, but polls and elections are subject to nearly all the same deterministic factors (unless one believes all polls have the same internal bias, in which case there is no point discussing them.) In other words, the same factors that cause Obama to lead a disproportionate number of polls make his re-election correspondingly likely.

Obviously deterministic factors can change between a poll and election day, and Romneys decisive debate victory should alter what have always been close polls, just as subsequent events will. However, polling up until 3 October pointed to a narrow but nearly certain Obama victory.
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Romney vs. Obama national poll results.
This message last edited by Joel on 05/10/2012 at 09:23:16 AM
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Romney CRUSHES Obama in First Debate - Leads Swing States by 4% - 04/10/2012 05:32:32 AM 1132 Views
So, is that from a "corrected", "non-skewed" poll? - 04/10/2012 05:51:58 AM 642 Views
Nope, I checked Betfair, the odds on Romney continue to drift - 04/10/2012 10:02:16 AM 733 Views
Wow, you suck at Googling! - 04/10/2012 01:14:22 PM 842 Views
No, you just apparently suck at math - 04/10/2012 07:17:20 PM 604 Views
I know you are sad, but your Messiah may still win.....you never know! - 04/10/2012 07:23:16 PM 673 Views
I'm more of a syndicalist, sorry - 04/10/2012 08:43:48 PM 705 Views
Ooh, would you mind talking more about syndicalism? - 04/10/2012 11:28:40 PM 612 Views
It really should be mandatory for everyone to read factcheck.org after every debate. *NM* - 04/10/2012 09:38:24 AM 375 Views
Seriously. The number of times I squinted and thought, "Wait, that doesn't sound quite right" - 04/10/2012 02:01:12 PM 736 Views
Romney addressed that head-on - 04/10/2012 02:13:44 PM 638 Views
Yeah, that "20 million" comment raised my eyebrows. - 04/10/2012 04:15:49 PM 991 Views
Why are you not counting the elderly? - 04/10/2012 07:33:28 PM 880 Views
Obama - Lost and Bewildered without Teleprompter.....funny stuff! - 04/10/2012 01:10:40 PM 662 Views
A2000, your message should read: - 04/10/2012 03:42:18 PM 684 Views
I consider the margin of error implied. - 04/10/2012 05:49:50 PM 587 Views
Unfortunately statistics does not support that. - 04/10/2012 06:11:56 PM 700 Views
Of course they do; the law of averages supports that. - 04/10/2012 06:46:27 PM 731 Views
Poll numbers aren't random so even if the law of averages could be applied to a small data set... - 04/10/2012 07:05:49 PM 612 Views
If not random, they are indicative (if not necessary conclusive,) and the data set is large enough. - 04/10/2012 08:55:24 PM 599 Views
Let me rephrase: the law of averages is a belief. You are basing your conclusion on a belief. - 04/10/2012 09:23:50 PM 673 Views
I have never used the Law of Averages to mean anything except the (proven) Law of Large Numbers. - 05/10/2012 09:22:56 AM 787 Views
I'm pretty sure that 136 is not a large number. *NM* - 05/10/2012 12:20:35 PM 399 Views
That is a matter of opinion, but for a binary event I think it huge. - 05/10/2012 12:42:24 PM 710 Views
Without additional data, the default would be that the coin is fair. Since... - 05/10/2012 05:20:21 PM 641 Views
After 136 trials the DEFAULT assumption no longer applies in the face of ample hard data. - 06/10/2012 04:02:51 PM 768 Views
I did the same experiment I suggested for you. - 06/10/2012 04:45:28 PM 614 Views
Still not a 3:1 ratio. - 06/10/2012 06:09:00 PM 849 Views
that is why you can't base things on just one poll - 05/10/2012 01:27:18 AM 795 Views
You are making the same mistake Joel is making. You should read our discussion. *NM* - 05/10/2012 01:50:01 AM 454 Views
there is a difference between statistical errors and model or method errors - 05/10/2012 03:28:38 AM 671 Views
There is a difference between the law of averages and the law of large numbers. - 05/10/2012 04:45:00 AM 867 Views
can wait for Ryan vs Bozo the VP - 04/10/2012 06:07:30 PM 556 Views
+1 - that debate is going to be comical! - 04/10/2012 07:24:26 PM 671 Views
I would end up with alchohol posioning *NM* - 04/10/2012 10:16:51 PM 405 Views
If Biden performs as expected... - 04/10/2012 07:46:16 PM 702 Views
your take on obama's foreign policy debate performance does not seem like reality - 04/10/2012 08:00:51 PM 643 Views
I never would have thought Romney could lay such a beatdown on Obama as I saw last night. - 04/10/2012 08:55:46 PM 714 Views
we saw the anti-romney last night. i doubt obama is going to be so flat-footed against him next time - 04/10/2012 10:35:21 PM 643 Views
Hilarious. - 04/10/2012 11:20:32 PM 598 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 05/10/2012 12:27:33 AM 604 Views
Why can it not be both? - 05/10/2012 12:58:59 PM 744 Views
who would you consider our number one geopolitical foe? - 04/10/2012 10:12:53 PM 722 Views
China is far more dangerous. *NM* - 05/10/2012 07:23:06 AM 309 Views
Whoa, was not expecting that point of agreement. - 05/10/2012 12:35:35 PM 751 Views
I'm not frightened of them, but they're hardly an ally. *NM* - 05/10/2012 03:55:45 PM 412 Views
I am not frightened, but am concerned. - 06/10/2012 01:27:40 PM 724 Views
they may be more dangerous but that doesn't that doesn't automatically make them first - 05/10/2012 01:09:30 PM 724 Views
That's fair enough. *NM* - 05/10/2012 03:54:56 PM 359 Views
WOW - Even the liberal CNN Poll confirms Romney's crushing victory. - 04/10/2012 07:27:28 PM 753 Views
I could have crushed either of them in that debate - 04/10/2012 09:26:07 PM 734 Views
I watched it now. A few thoughts (albeit rather late): - 05/10/2012 09:46:02 PM 793 Views
You are correct on all points. - 07/10/2012 03:12:51 AM 893 Views
"There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe." - 07/10/2012 02:03:49 PM 1176 Views
you are missing a key point - 07/10/2012 04:34:17 PM 692 Views
Am I missing that point? I thought I said clearly enough that I thought Romney was better. *NM* - 07/10/2012 08:47:42 PM 421 Views
maybe, seemed that way to me - 08/10/2012 03:18:18 PM 671 Views

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