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it depends on what your definition of "succeed" is i guess.... moondog Send a noteboard - 04/04/2013 10:27:30 PM

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Does everyone deserve an equal opportunity to succeed?

I'm not talking of equality in the realm of equal standing among individuals in a slave/master sort of way. I'm not speaking of "rights" (define rights as you would see fit). I'm speaking of the opportunity to be "rich" or "poor".

We can all agree that the socio/economic strata that one is born into lends to advantages or disadvantages. If you're born into a family with significant financial backing, there are many opportunities for success. Good school, a home life where material concerns are not a point of stress, you name it. If you're born into a family without financial backing, there are precious few opportunities for success (if any exist). Are we as a society going to strive to take away those advantages and give them to the disadvantaged? Or are we going to let the advantaged have what they have, and try to help the disadvantaged? Maybe we decide to leave it alone and let what happens happen?

It is often pointed out those of society who are not successful (as measured by material wealth) are not necessarily there for lack of trying. It is also pointed out that the system that we have allows for some individuals to abuse the system.

Nossy, I believe, brought up the thought of what if the individual makes a mistake, or gets sick and that puts them in a financial hole next to impossible to drag themselves out of. I look at my own family and see those who dropped out of High School for <insert their reason here>. Or I see other family who are strung out on <insert their drug of choice here>. Where do we draw the line of the place a person is in life is due to the choices that they make? Where do we "save" them from themselves?

Is it the government's place to take care of us...feed us...clothe us...and give us something to do so that we don't become destructive? Where does a society balance compassion with tough love?

~Jeordam


absolutely, we should be doing what we can to create a society where living sober is better than self-medication, and where a poor kid from the ghetto has more of a chance of getting an education than getting killed or put in jail forever. unfortunately, and in relation to your other post on theology above, we have some people professing their christian ideals and proclaiming that we are a christian nation while simultaneously saying that the poor are nothing but low-life leechers on society hell-bent on destroying what rich people hold dear.

as long as people in this country are struggling to get by then our society must do what it can to prevent this. and make no mistake that it is a federal issue, since the problem of being poor is not endemic to any one particular state or region. it's not correct to frame it in the terms of "take away from the advantaged and give benefits to the disadvantaged". the ones who are born wealthy or who get the one lucky break and become wealthy through their own labors have a duty to "pay it forward" and make sure that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed.

most people don't understand why it is that the millionaires and billionaires think they deserve more of the money that they make off of our backs without paying it back in some way. as i mentioned in a different part of this thread, JK Rowling credits the government assistance in the UK with helping her get through her time when she was trying to make her own way. and she is the first to admit that she gladly pays the high tax rate she has earned through her success if it means that other people will succeed later as a result of the same programs that she benefited from. US society right now has too much of "us against them" and more specifically "me first, screw everyone else" attitude to allow the least fortunate their chance to prove that they can do better for themselves. we've become a nation of "let them eat cake" and it's dragging us down as a nation.

"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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Liberalism has officially failed - Poverty reaches 1960 levels - - 04/04/2013 12:33:15 AM 1181 Views
As has Conservatism. - 04/04/2013 12:37:23 AM 683 Views
I know it hurts.....but the truth about liberalism will set you free! - 04/04/2013 12:42:57 AM 784 Views
Have you ever tried to fish when really hungry? - 04/04/2013 06:32:17 AM 704 Views
HA! HA! In your dreams that's how liberalism works. How about..... - 04/04/2013 04:59:33 PM 649 Views
and lo, Jesus said unto the poor gathered to him: "begone freeloaders! the wealthy need more money" - 04/04/2013 06:43:32 PM 719 Views
Interestingly enough.... - 04/04/2013 09:20:06 PM 693 Views
Re: Interestingly enough.... - 04/04/2013 09:31:27 PM 711 Views
Well here is where theology gets fun.... - 04/04/2013 09:48:50 PM 758 Views
The entire post...as well as many of the sub-threads....prompts the question of: - 04/04/2013 09:39:16 PM 759 Views
it depends on what your definition of "succeed" is i guess.... - 04/04/2013 10:27:30 PM 808 Views
And that is certainly your opinion.... - 04/04/2013 10:54:08 PM 803 Views
Re: And that is certainly your opinion.... - 04/04/2013 11:57:34 PM 879 Views
Hmm good questions - 04/04/2013 10:29:45 PM 788 Views
you contradicted yourself - 04/04/2013 10:44:47 PM 715 Views
Re: you contradicted yourself - 04/04/2013 10:54:35 PM 778 Views
i think i understand where you're coming from.... - 05/04/2013 07:33:32 PM 757 Views
I see the problem - 04/04/2013 06:45:53 PM 710 Views
since you don't trust the gov't, what are you doing to help the poor survive? - 04/04/2013 12:58:49 AM 787 Views
A few serious answers, if you can handle them..... - 04/04/2013 04:15:32 AM 685 Views
Re: A few serious answers, if you can handle them..... - 04/04/2013 06:42:00 PM 811 Views
Perhaps its time to try a little fact checking. - 04/04/2013 03:34:44 AM 957 Views
I'm happy you agree with me, liberalism has failed and it's time for something different. - 04/04/2013 03:47:17 AM 671 Views
Oh the cleverness of you. - 04/04/2013 03:52:07 AM 835 Views
Wow, I'm shocked. Yes, let's stick with the failed status quo. Good plan! - 04/04/2013 04:17:32 AM 632 Views
Who said anything about the status quo? I just said I didn't agree with your solution. *NM* - 04/04/2013 04:19:37 AM 425 Views
Then time to step up, what's your idea? - 04/04/2013 04:22:58 AM 632 Views
As you might say, "What do you expect, a free ride?" - 04/04/2013 11:45:02 AM 851 Views
How typicaly conservative! And no. - 04/04/2013 02:05:00 PM 668 Views
Agreed and this is how we will finance such a move - 04/04/2013 04:01:46 AM 749 Views
I'm glad you agree! - 04/04/2013 04:21:25 AM 707 Views
No, in Europe, liberalism is generally successful - 04/04/2013 06:15:34 AM 687 Views
Liberalism & Conservatism 'officially fail' about ever other year I've noticed, still around though *NM* - 04/04/2013 09:02:42 AM 330 Views
Yes. I wonder if there will ever be an age of fiscally responsible/conservative liberals. - 05/04/2013 03:41:09 AM 753 Views
I guess it depends on how you define the terms - 05/04/2013 08:52:25 AM 902 Views
*nod* - 05/04/2013 01:30:47 PM 759 Views
Re: *nod* - 05/04/2013 03:12:17 PM 663 Views
Off topic: are you gardening yet? - 05/04/2013 02:25:06 PM 604 Views
Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 03:21:25 PM 594 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 07:10:57 PM 672 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 08:19:16 PM 721 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 11:21:56 PM 724 Views
I didn't know they make LED grow lights! - 06/04/2013 12:18:25 AM 867 Views
It's a bit newer because of the price, that's been dropping - 06/04/2013 01:20:10 AM 740 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 11:11:12 PM 848 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 07:56:47 PM 728 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 06/04/2013 12:36:10 AM 861 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 06/04/2013 02:01:59 AM 763 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 06/04/2013 03:19:39 AM 610 Views
Yes, the logical step is to go for Nordic style socialism. - 04/04/2013 03:19:17 PM 731 Views
well that and a tiny homogenous population funded by large oil reserves - 04/04/2013 06:57:51 PM 697 Views
Eh, you're describing norway. - 04/04/2013 08:11:25 PM 655 Views
The Economist (of all people) was singing the praises of the Nordic countries recently. - 04/04/2013 08:49:36 PM 715 Views
Hey, guess what? - 04/04/2013 08:55:59 PM 669 Views
Awesome. - 04/04/2013 09:22:13 PM 586 Views
Oh my gosh! - 04/04/2013 09:27:17 PM 599 Views
Yes! - 04/04/2013 09:33:45 PM 638 Views
Yay! - 04/04/2013 09:37:40 PM 659 Views
We're Maryland, actually, as I recall. - 04/04/2013 10:15:49 PM 639 Views
Eh survival of the fittest - 04/04/2013 06:18:52 PM 742 Views
Excuse me? - 04/04/2013 08:42:24 PM 682 Views
Cry me a river - 04/04/2013 08:55:40 PM 707 Views
Funny. - 04/04/2013 09:18:15 PM 703 Views
Re: Funny. - 04/04/2013 10:19:35 PM 709 Views
good for you for making it but you are so full of bullshit - 04/04/2013 10:38:45 PM 720 Views
Re: good for you for making it but you are so full of bullshit - 04/04/2013 10:49:14 PM 707 Views
Wow. - 04/04/2013 11:27:06 PM 711 Views
Re: Wow. - 05/04/2013 12:18:08 AM 818 Views
congrats on being part of the problem.... *NM* - 05/04/2013 04:48:58 AM 369 Views
It's pointless to argue with those who don't understand the psychology of generational poverty. *NM* - 05/04/2013 03:43:40 AM 350 Views
Clearly. *NM* - 05/04/2013 07:32:21 PM 316 Views
Oh the "it's nobody's fault excuse" - 05/04/2013 08:56:51 PM 679 Views
Get back to me when you know wtf you're talking about. *NM* - 05/04/2013 09:03:08 PM 349 Views
I'm back *NM* - 06/04/2013 01:40:47 AM 329 Views
You're over-generalizing a bit - 06/04/2013 01:49:02 AM 790 Views

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