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Re: I have read the laws you linked to, I fail to see how they cannot also apply to Martin HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 17/07/2013 03:41:58 AM

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Look at it from Martin's point of view:
  • A random stranger has been following you in his car since you left the store
  • The same stranger has now left his car and is following you on foot
  • You try to hide from him but he finds you and gets in your face about coming into his neighbourhood

At this point there are two things which are absolute fact:

1) Martin and Zimmerman ended up in an altercation with each other, and
2) Martin ended up dead by Zimmerman's hand

The reason for them being in a fight in the first place is completely and reasonably up for debate. However, you continue to insist that only Martin was the aggressor in this situation, completely disregarding how he must have felt or what the situation looked like from his point of view. As did the jurors, it seems. In the rush to judge the situation, you have determined that Martin has no right to defend himself against what he perceives as someone coming to cause him bodily harm -- otherwise why is Zimmerman pursuing him on foot? By getting out of his car and putting himself directly in a bad situation, Zimmerman is initiating the chain of events that ended in Martin's death. This is what I am trying to get you to understand, but you seem to be willfully unreceptive to the fact that there were two stories that night. You have chosen to only see one story because of your own reasons and I will not begin to guess why. However, there is no reason the law does not also apply to Martin. This is why manslaughter was the appropriate charge, because it was Zimmerman's willful actions which caused Martin's death, not the self-defense claim Zimmerman presented.


  • Zimmerman was not following him from the store
  • after Martin walked past Zimmerman's car and went between 2 buildings, Zimmerman got out of his car and followed him
  • Martin never hid, he ran to (or near)his Father's home and in the process lost Zimmerman (Jeantel's testimony from the phone call)

You have just glaringly illustrated you lack of knowledge of the particulars of the case you have decided to ge so worked up about. If you had spent half as much time researching as you have ranting you would know these things.

1.25 Zimmerman failed to inflict ANY damage to Martin
1.5 Martin was (based on physical evidence) on his back with Martin on top of him (physical evidence regarding Martin's position as well)
1.75 Martin was never on his back (again physical evidence dictates this)

The reason for the altercation can be debated, however who initiated it is less debatable because of the lack of any injuries to Martin.

If you have actually read the self-defense statute then you need to go read it again because you are not comprehending the portion that states WHEN a person is legally allowed to initiate violence. The moment Martin succeeded in eluding Zimmerman (which according to Jeantel's testimony, and Zimmerman's police statements he could no longer even TRY to claim justification based on Zimmerman following him.

BTW, the confrontation did not occur anywhere near his father's place, you might want to check out the diagram of the timeline overlaid upon a google look-down that is available online. The only explanation that fits is that Martin lost Zimmerman and then decided to go look for him. Massively dumb, but that is what fits the known facts and the subjective testimony. At that point it is impossible to claim self-defense based on fear of being followed, and you are only left with attempting to claim that Zimmerman somehow decided to physically attack Martin, and that is laughable.

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Zimmerman = Not Guilty - 14/07/2013 04:04:07 AM 1725 Views
Any charge, other than stupidity, was rediculous. *NM* - 14/07/2013 04:24:09 AM 474 Views
Stupidity+Death= Manslaughter *NM* - 14/07/2013 05:27:39 AM 448 Views
But hey... - 14/07/2013 05:35:11 AM 951 Views
And THAT is the scary precendent this case sets for the populace - 14/07/2013 05:28:03 PM 1077 Views
Oh puhleeze... can you get any more rediculous? *NM* - 14/07/2013 07:22:52 PM 597 Views
HyogaRott baby, you are hurting me here. Can you please stop this? - 14/07/2013 11:29:00 PM 838 Views
If inline spellcheck doesn't catch it, I probably won't either. - 15/07/2013 06:29:29 AM 765 Views
you really are small minded little bigot - 15/07/2013 03:57:01 AM 850 Views
+1 - Seriously has imlad always been this nuts? *NM* - 15/07/2013 04:32:33 AM 510 Views
Your reply is partisan and obnoxious. - 15/07/2013 02:15:13 PM 834 Views
So it was okay that he was on top of a guy, pounding his head into the pavement? - 14/07/2013 06:45:17 PM 848 Views
If you can believe Zimmerman's side of the story is 100% truth, I have a bridge for sale... - 15/07/2013 05:35:08 PM 955 Views
do you have actual evidence to support zimmerman lied? *NM* - 16/07/2013 05:43:42 PM 477 Views
Sure - 16/07/2013 06:49:20 PM 733 Views
Re: Sure - 16/07/2013 07:53:27 PM 895 Views
Re: Sure - 16/07/2013 10:07:13 PM 940 Views
Re: Sure - 17/07/2013 03:26:15 AM 873 Views
The kid decided to beat a man who had a gun and got shot for it - 15/07/2013 03:46:38 AM 835 Views
In a sane world, here is how their interaction plays out - 15/07/2013 05:44:26 PM 793 Views
Yes. And the fact that he didn't simply ask him what he was doing, tells me he was racial profiling - 15/07/2013 08:59:41 PM 790 Views
The only way that statement makes sense is if it is sarcasm - 16/07/2013 12:46:59 PM 740 Views
You are suggesting that it is better to shoot first rather than engage in diplomacy - 16/07/2013 07:05:32 PM 792 Views
And you continue to ignore all the evidence that supports the theory that Martin attacked Zimmerman - 16/07/2013 07:20:55 PM 776 Views
You are defending a known liar with a history of domestic violence - 16/07/2013 07:23:11 PM 846 Views
Look at A2K's post below - 16/07/2013 07:34:11 PM 844 Views
Actually I am not defending anyone (except the rule of law). - 16/07/2013 08:00:38 PM 793 Views
You keep insisting that Martin started the fight, giving him no chance of his own self-defense right - 16/07/2013 09:25:17 PM 754 Views
Please, Please, PLEASE actually read the laws of Florida that I have posted a link to for you. - 16/07/2013 09:41:15 PM 780 Views
I have read the laws you linked to, I fail to see how they cannot also apply to Martin - 16/07/2013 10:40:46 PM 745 Views
You failed to identify any laws. *NM* - 16/07/2013 10:49:20 PM 450 Views
I saved it for the reply to Isaac below if you really need it *NM* - 16/07/2013 11:07:53 PM 586 Views
Re: I have read the laws you linked to, I fail to see how they cannot also apply to Martin - 17/07/2013 03:41:58 AM 766 Views
And tomorrow I get to preach about the Good Samaritan. - 14/07/2013 05:26:50 AM 1013 Views
Where's your forgiveness?? Judge not lest ye be judged. - 14/07/2013 07:10:14 PM 784 Views
Did I say a thing about Zimmerman? No. - 14/07/2013 08:44:26 PM 922 Views
Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Which neighborhood watch were you referring to? - 15/07/2013 12:46:44 AM 881 Views
Float your concept of grace in front of your priest sometime. - 15/07/2013 04:31:34 AM 750 Views
Danny... - 15/07/2013 01:32:03 PM 848 Views
You'd think the rain of venom in here would make everyone's soapbox too slippery to stand on - 15/07/2013 01:05:41 PM 772 Views
+1 *NM* - 15/07/2013 06:40:15 PM 530 Views
would that be true for most of politics as well? *NM* - 16/07/2013 12:58:33 PM 500 Views
Depends on the case, but those aren't individual life and death criminal trials - 16/07/2013 01:52:00 PM 716 Views
when the president gets involved it is safe to polotics are at play. - 16/07/2013 06:23:54 PM 759 Views
That's not an unfair remark but it justifies criticizing him, not also getting involved in the case - 16/07/2013 06:59:53 PM 777 Views
When a case shows glaring holes in the law, it should by nature cause those laws to be reconsidered - 16/07/2013 07:18:57 PM 873 Views
I'm not sure what those 'glaring holes' are, but a specific person shouldn't be needed to show them - 16/07/2013 08:18:38 PM 775 Views
It is a bit difficult to not use the case when the specificity of the case is the problem.... - 16/07/2013 11:06:59 PM 840 Views
I sympathize with that but I think it remains a moral necessity to do so - 17/07/2013 12:14:39 AM 909 Views
Re: I sympathize with that but I think it remains a moral necessity to do so - 17/07/2013 05:29:56 PM 895 Views
I think you've over-personalized this case - 17/07/2013 08:00:50 PM 825 Views
I think this case is simply the closest example at hand of a perceived lack of justice - 17/07/2013 10:34:38 PM 879 Views
Re: I think this case is simply the closest example at hand of a perceived lack of justice - 18/07/2013 01:39:17 AM 1024 Views
Jury instructions - 18/07/2013 04:12:29 AM 974 Views
Jury Instructions 2 - 18/07/2013 06:22:33 PM 817 Views
I just want to comment on two points from your reply - 19/07/2013 09:47:06 PM 736 Views
I'm pretty throughly exhausted of this - 19/07/2013 10:46:22 PM 826 Views
Nice. - 16/07/2013 09:01:50 PM 933 Views
Thanks - 16/07/2013 09:48:00 PM 766 Views
Well said. - 17/07/2013 02:25:36 PM 931 Views
it is possible to discuss a case based on what the evidence shows - 17/07/2013 06:03:05 PM 914 Views
Of course it is possible, one just fails to see how it can serve any good end - 17/07/2013 09:43:02 PM 779 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 18/07/2013 02:08:25 AM 565 Views
That just brings us full circle to my orignal reply to you - 18/07/2013 02:52:15 AM 823 Views
Re: That just brings us full circle to my orignal reply to you - 18/07/2013 04:09:51 AM 929 Views
are agree with your general concept - 18/07/2013 05:20:41 PM 1055 Views
Good. - 15/07/2013 02:11:12 PM 754 Views
Perhaps one day black people will have the same rights as whites in the US - 15/07/2013 05:30:00 PM 915 Views
Congratulations on making one of the dumbest statemets of the year. *NM* - 15/07/2013 09:00:46 PM 537 Views
You have tried retroatcively making Martin a criminal here, despite him doing nothing wrong - 15/07/2013 10:52:32 PM 811 Views
So you support attacking creepy crackers who you think are following you? - 16/07/2013 12:56:52 PM 802 Views
The law suggests that if I fear for my safety, I am justified in attacking first in self-defense - 18/07/2013 11:00:58 PM 865 Views
there is zero evidience to support that assumption - 19/07/2013 04:25:15 AM 736 Views
Let's see - Martin was using drugs..... - 16/07/2013 04:56:13 PM 793 Views
Does that mean he should have been hunted down and shot? *NM* - 16/07/2013 05:22:43 PM 493 Views
He wasn't, so your question is irrelevant. - 16/07/2013 05:37:27 PM 718 Views

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