I know its uncomfortable for people on the left to remember that Arms build up under Reagan is usually credited for ending the Cold War and you'll probably want to argue how that isn't so but several of the shutdowns were over the left balking at spending on Missiles. Another common cause was them fighting amongst themselves under Carter and a Dem House and Dem senate over whether or not Medicaid would pay for abortions and which kind. So there's your war and your healthcare analogies, do some research.
i'm pretty sure i'm slightly older than you so i'm well aware of reagan's arms race bankrupting the soviets into obscurity, at the expense of bankrupting us in the process albeit at a much slower pace. those deficits and debts you complain about now are the brainchild of his budgetary policies. and to pre-empt your inevitable "but the dems did that too" yes the dems share just as much blame for a lot of our past 30 years of budget deficits.
... Or as a combat veteran of the War on Terror I find it pretty fucking brazen you are calling me and my party terrorists, since I have first hand experience with the real thing.
Incidentally, on the whole 'the president shouldn't negotiate with terrorists' thing, don't you think that's a fairly lousy example to use when POTUS authorized negotiaitons with the Taliban?
and if he can get a deal with hard-line, religious fanatics bent on the destruction of America and its allies, but not republicans, i'm pretty sure it's not Obama's fault we are in the mess we have right now.
I certainly have no major moral qualms about it, as I've already said I'm not sure about it strategically. Hence I am, by your definition a terrorist, since my concerns are principally strategic and not ethical.
i must have missed the part where you claimed to be a member of the US house. but as is usual with identity politics, the loudest and most vocal members of your caucus are going to be the de facto public face of your party. you don't have to associate yourself with them, but i know that would kind of destroy the work you put in being a party official.
Yes, Cruz is way over the top comparing anyone to Nazi's, that the Dems use parallel rhetoric routinely doesn't matter to you, nor your own use of terrorism which to me is on the same level as Nazism.
probably so, but at least "terrorist" is a more accurate description given the circumstances. this shutdown and the upcoming default (and probably the upcoming impeachment to be determined) were and are completely avoidable and are terrible precedent for future legislation. Obamacare has not only been settled law for over three years, but has also survived its Supreme Court challenge. it's time to move on to something more constructive. holding the government hostage to extort concessions for something that has already been allocated funding and can't be repealed or replaced (as of yet) is hardly a constructive endeavor.
Uh, I take it you don't understand negotiation. Both sides have a laundry list of things they'd like, they take as much as they can get for as little as they can give. If the president throws out an offer for knocking SS up to 68 over a decade and a tie to Lifespan, or a federal right to work law something that tasty buys a lot of value. Here's how negotiation works, I know some things I want especially bad are probably less repugnant to you then some of the things I want a bit less and vice-versa, and the table is always open to things out of left field. The GOP has already made its request clear, and POTUS his unwillingness to meet them, a negotiation might result in a different or partial exchange.
once again you are spinning the arguments to make the republicans seem reasonable. if this were a negotiation, then the House would have allowed the budget conference committee to form SIX MONTHS AGO when these bills first came up. as of today, the house gop has rejected sitting in conference something like 20 times, then tried to put up a bill which was pre-determined to failure and passed it anyway knowing full well that the consequence would be a federal shutdown. if republicans were interested in negotiation, they should have actually created the negotiation committee rather than force a shutdown over a law they can't do anything to stop or change. and issuing demands on that selfsame law, knowing there is no hope of getting it passed, is the very definition of insanity. you know, "doing something over and over and expecting different results"?
now you're all going around trying to pretend a default would be no big deal. if it's not a big deal, why is it the centerpiece of your attempt to extort budget cuts to raise the debt ceiling? either it's important enough that you have some kind of leverage to use it, or it's not important, in which case you're going to drag the entire world down with you in your quixotic attempts to make Obama pay for daring to win the last two elections.
Don't be an ass, of course we know why we shut it down, we loathe Obamacare and the nation is running huge deficits and huge unemployment we believe will only increase if Obamacare is enacted. Now you don't have to believe that is what will occur, but it is very clearly what we believe will occur. If you didn't have your head stuffed in an echo chamber that attributes over-the-top and often contradictory vile traits to my party you'd realize that.
except that paul ryan's last budget used the savings Obamacare is going to generate to make up some $700 billion in revenue. again i ask: why is it so important to deny people access to affordable health care? and a corollary to that question: if Obamacare is going to be such a money drain, why not pass bills which might address that rather than scrap the whole program for no real reason? or, for that matter, why take 42 votes and counting to repeal instead of actually writing legislation to address the supposedly valid concerns you have regarding the law? none of this makes sense to anyone outside right-wing lala land, mostly because no republicans can offer an alternative plan which doesn't do exactly what Obamacare is already offering.
and i'm only attributing things to your party that i feel they have earned. if you want people like myself to not think the republicans are all bat-shit crazy then you should help elect non-bat-shit crazy republicans instead of even bigger and better bat-shit crazy republicans. the tea party caucus has way too much power over the federal government for having only 30-80 members depending on who's counting. and again, these people are the face of your party, regardless of how reasonable or moderate other republicans are willing to be to get stuff done like the adult men and women they are.
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
- 06/10/2013 06:48:02 PM
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- 08/10/2013 09:04:06 AM
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*NM*