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Yeah, I'm aware. Legolas Send a noteboard - 07/05/2014 07:03:36 AM

View original posti think the big problem comes from these little towns which believe that everyone shares their religious identity, and so it becomes "no big deal" to begin each government meeting with an invocation to the christian god. for someone like myself, who does not worship at any particular faith, it's a bit offensive to me to force me to participate in a religious service for which i did not sign up to do so. but if the invocation can be kept non-denominational i would have less objection to being forced to participate, even though the government is establishing a religious basis by virtue of performing a religious service before doing the people's work. people are still free to exercise their particular faith outside of the government's operations, but the government itself should not be condoning religious sacraments in the course of its duties.

The justices argue that the town council determining what should and should not be in a non-denominational prayer, or them drawing up a rotation between various faiths according to some particular system, would have been much worse in terms of violation of the separation of church and state than the actual procedure, which was more random and haphazard, and limited to Christian invitees mostly just because there are almost no non-Christian places of worship within the city limits.

And really, I do agree that it's a stretch to talk about being "forced" to participate - there were many references in the opinion to a prior decision about a high school graduation ceremony, where the SC did feel that it was difficult for graduating students to reject the religious elements, and did rule against the school for "forcing" its students. In here that seems like a stretch - people who had a problem with the Christian prayer, or for that matter the possibly more numerous Christians who had a problem with that Wiccan prayer that one time, could just ignore it, or go outside for a bit.

View original postto me, this case sounds like they did not try to be non-denominational, they purposely skirted the issue except when other faiths asked to be allowed to participate. that is the exact scenario we are supposed to be shielded from, and why the supreme court got this one wrong, yet again. better that they should skip the religious invocations altogether rather than give the appearance of favoring one specific religion -- christianity -- over all other religions.

The French "laicité", the aggressive enforcement of removing religious elements from public and political life as much as possible, is one possible solution, yes. I don't think it's the best one, though. I think the justices are right when saying that an attempt to intentionally find a balance between religions - taking into account the very small numbers of Muslims, Jews etc. in the town - would probably have been worse than what they did. They could have avoided the whole problem by canceling that prayer altogether, but that seems like overkill considering that there wasn't much in the way of protest from the citizens, and when there was, they did react in the way they should by allowing the other religions to be represented, still in the same haphazard fashion that didn't require any actual judgement calls on which religions to invite how much.

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SCOTUS - Time to pray at Town Council meetings! - 05/05/2014 06:54:56 PM 902 Views
I'm agnostic but I think they made the right decision - 05/05/2014 08:09:21 PM 511 Views
Yeah, pretty much how I feel *NM* - 06/05/2014 12:27:22 AM 223 Views
Absolutely.....I'm not religious, but I love this decision..... - 06/05/2014 02:36:29 AM 454 Views
I think you're misunderstanding the problem. It's not a question of being "offended" - 06/05/2014 02:43:26 PM 421 Views
But look at what you're advocating for... - 06/05/2014 10:55:56 PM 432 Views
let's not go to extremes - 07/05/2014 12:33:38 AM 428 Views
please point out where constitution calls for a separation of church and state - 07/05/2014 06:44:42 PM 433 Views
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...." - 08/05/2014 12:37:06 AM 390 Views
so the answer no you can't - 08/05/2014 04:50:26 AM 405 Views
Again- it's not about being offended - 07/05/2014 04:02:29 AM 475 Views
America doesn't have seperation of church and state it has freedom of relgion - 07/05/2014 06:42:19 PM 427 Views
Not exactly. - 07/05/2014 07:01:23 PM 423 Views
The words are clear and the intent is well documented - 08/05/2014 05:13:42 AM 429 Views
Yeah, seems sensible. - 05/05/2014 10:08:39 PM 447 Views
Re: Yeah, seems sensible. - 06/05/2014 07:04:01 PM 429 Views
our Constitution expressly prohibits the establishment of religion by government, though - 06/05/2014 09:20:19 PM 419 Views
I couldn't disagree more... - 06/05/2014 10:50:19 PM 431 Views
bad analogy - 07/05/2014 12:19:26 AM 432 Views
But the GOVERNMENT is participating/supporting - 07/05/2014 04:17:32 AM 418 Views
Yeah, I'm aware. - 07/05/2014 07:03:36 AM 430 Views
That's not unreasonable - 06/05/2014 08:01:48 AM 487 Views
There's plenty that I don't want.... - 06/05/2014 10:57:41 PM 469 Views
In Keeping With Tradition Is Terrible Justification - 08/05/2014 03:37:34 AM 451 Views

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