Active Users:303 Time:29/04/2024 02:52:29 PM
You mean unless Europe is willing to give up the United States of America? Legolas Send a noteboard - 03/05/2017 05:49:50 PM

View original postThey have gone from bad to worthless. They have given up even the pretense of objectivity. If London was being attacked the way Israel is they my change their tune, but then again maybe not. Exactly which international law is Israel violating and under whose authority was the law written? Any international law only has the weight of the countries that agreed to it an Israel is still a sovereign nation.

See my reply to AA.
View original postAt some point the European left is going to have stop giving Hamas cover and using them as anti-American propaganda tools. Israel should wait for the next attack declare ware and persecute that war until Hamas either signs an unconditional surrender or they are driven out of all territory Israel controls. Wars have consequences and there was a clear winner in this war. Unless all of Europe is willing to give up all the territory they took in conquest they should shut up.

I don't even know what you mean by the last part, if it isn't the unlikely interpretation in my subject line. The territories 'Europe' took in conquest are now independent nations or parts thereof, hence they are no longer Europe's to give back to anyone. But you do make a valid point in the sense that many on the European left see Israel as comparable to the European conquests in colonial times - and hence feel that, like in other former European colonies, the European 'colonists' may have a right to keep living there but no right to oppress the native population. Which is why so many draw comparisons to South-Africa before Mandela.

I don't say I see Israel that way myself, the issue is far more complex than that and viewing Israeli Jews as comparable to Afrikaners in the era of apartheid conveniently overlooks Europe's historical responsibilities. But there are certain similarities, and it's easy enough to see how things would look that way from the perspective of Palestinians.

And as for what Israel should do - they could have taken over the Gaza Strip and the parts of the West Bank they don't fully control already easily enough. It might actually be good for the Palestinian population, in the short term, but they don't do it because what on earth will they do in the longer term then? If they go down that path, the only likely long-term outcome is a one-state solution, which they would no longer dominate. A two state solution in which Israel remains a Jewish state requires a functional Palestinian state, which in turn requires functional political actors who can create and develop such a state. Not necessarily Hamas itself, but then a leader or a movement strong enough to draw away Hamas' support, which Fatah or Abbas clearly aren't.

Reply to message
Why Now Is the Time to Talk to Hamas - 02/05/2017 06:30:35 PM 1001 Views
Since Eretz Israel is still Likud's aim, and AIPAC has turned Capitol Hill into another... - 02/05/2017 07:22:09 PM 525 Views
There's more to Israel than Likud - and more to Capitol Hill than AIPAC. - 02/05/2017 07:37:11 PM 641 Views
But it's the Likudniks, in both countries, who have such an outsized say in matters... - 02/05/2017 08:07:11 PM 516 Views
For now. - 02/05/2017 08:31:25 PM 591 Views
and the foreseeable future - 02/05/2017 08:55:11 PM 515 Views
I bite my tongue - 02/05/2017 09:27:07 PM 538 Views
Hamas is still considered a terrorist group by the US and the EU. - 02/05/2017 08:21:47 PM 568 Views
See, that's the kind of reply I was expecting. - 02/05/2017 08:59:41 PM 633 Views
Oh, I'd still talk to them. I just don't expect anything positive will occur with them. - 02/05/2017 09:38:47 PM 504 Views
Fair enough. *NM* - 02/05/2017 10:34:39 PM 312 Views
Depends on if you believe them or not - 02/05/2017 08:38:19 PM 523 Views
What else can one expect from the Guardian? - 03/05/2017 03:26:08 AM 628 Views
where people wipe their ass with their left hand *NM* - 03/05/2017 03:51:42 AM 430 Views
Unless ISIS chopped it off - 03/05/2017 05:45:09 AM 523 Views
Talk. Exterminate. Either or really. *NM* - 03/05/2017 07:27:33 AM 253 Views
The Guardian really can't be taken seriously - 03/05/2017 03:10:24 PM 727 Views
You mean unless Europe is willing to give up the United States of America? - 03/05/2017 05:49:50 PM 683 Views
Fuck the Guardian. Who is supposed to talk with Hamas ? - 03/05/2017 04:11:01 PM 522 Views

Reply to Message