Active Users:156 Time:02/06/2024 07:51:00 AM
Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement. Joel Send a noteboard - 01/03/2010 03:51:49 AM
In itself, no, it's not an indicator of stupidity or dishonesty. You might need to write your boss' cell number on your hand; you shouldn't need to write your own name there. ;)

Agreed... amazing, we have managed to come to some sort of consensus on the original topic of the thread, now that we've probably both posted more words on the subject then everyone else in the thread combined did ;)

That's ever been their problem, never mine. ;)
That's reasonable, though it does highlight one problem with allowing concealment to be a local issue (though I tend to agree it should be. ) It's hard for me to fully articulate, but the idea of concealing deadly force unnerves me on a primal level. While not everyone with a concealed weapon is a criminal, almost every armed criminal will try to conceal it until ready to use it, and if discovered before they commit a crime, concealment bans become a way to PREVENT more serious crimes. I can't imagine many scenarios where possessing a weapon becomes a greater deterrent by adding concealment. I tend to think of it more along the lines of the TX shaped wooden sign I used to see at a local shop: A picture of a revolver and the caption "we don't dial 911. "

Well, loosely speaking laws tend not to be very effective when their punishments are less than the other crime you plan to commit by breaking that law. Under the circumstances, people planning to commit murderous acts don't have much to fear from a weapons violation unless we want to start making those capital crimes. I think that's more or less the justification for drug dealers getting higher sentence than drug users. Never bother with a law designed to prevent action which itself is already a more serious offense, that's my take, but I've no objection to local bans, just so long as they aren't setup to through someone to the wolves because they didn't know (and really shouldn't have to know) that the town they stopped for grub driving on their sales route has extreme penalties for concealed use and a total ban. You could probably do a work around by having something along a 3 strikes policy, but that would probably need mandatory minimum sentencing, which is a whole nother can of worms... basically I just think it's easier not to bother at all, but I'm unsurprisingly more comfortable around firearms than the public as a whole I should think.

Well, it goes along with my basic thinking on the issue; if a guys snub nosed .38 falls out of his pants in front of a cop when he's on the way to a bank job, he can do a couple years in the state pen for that instead of robbing a bank. In an age when law enforcement frequently "asks" to search vehicles during routine traffic stops it's not an entirely hypothetical or even rarely applicable point. The one time I've denied permission to search, I was asked, "why?" and when I said it was because so many have bled and died for my right to say no that casually surrendering it would be spitting on their graves, I wound up standing by the road while a cop field tested one of my cigarette butts he was SURE was weed. So, yeah, I think laws against concealed weapons can do a lot to prevent more serious crimes, just as laws against felons having a firearm under any circumstances do.
Yes, there are qualifications for office; there's nothing in the Constitution that bars a qualified candidate except the 26th Amendment and the birth requirement. And I think you give Reagan too much credit; I think he was as much a believer in the imperial Presidency (in his own image) as Nixon and Bush 43, and even had he needed to rationalize it with something like the Cold War creating an extreme situation akin to America on the eve of WWII, he'd have stayed in until forced about by defeat, death or incapacity. Especially since, once again, he admitted after leaving office that Alzheimers was affecting him by the end of his second term.

Well, I actually don't deify him as much as has become popular among most conservatives today, though I of course like him. But just so you know, I do not happen to have an idol to ST. Reagan in my house or anything ;) I don't think he'd have ran again, at least not without such as shift in how the country, especially the GOP, views that restriction. You would hear people support it, but that's fondness and kneejerk, don't forget, besides being in favor of term limits philosophically, most of us have a deeply ingrained hatred of FDR's behavior in office that's probably about as deep and rational as the love of Reagan, take that as you would, and their were a lot more goldwater conservatives then. Ultimnately it wouldn't happen because so many elections are so close that even 10% of your supporters objecting and maybe a quarter of indies and mods being swayed to the other side over it would ensure defeat even for him. Also, the ALzheimer's thing doesn't bother me, that comes into play slowly and we do have a functional government that can and would stop anything nutty, I imagine you remember all the political satire and music videos of that age covering this (personal favorite Genesis's 'Land of Confusion';) but those werne't really very realistic, and the proof is in the pudding, everything was fine. Not that I'm espousing we elect Pres's suffering from mental degeneracy, but it's not too big a deal toward the end of the second term. I have, as I imagine many of do, some experience with relatives coming down with those types of illnesses, they take a while to have any major effect along the lines of 'Nuke everyone'.

I don't know that everything was "fine. " Some have noted a correlation between Reagans discovery that a hyper-realistic European war game managed to convince MOSCOW to nearly launch a first strike and his subsequent shift from "TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!" to a more measured and engaged policy toward the Soviets, a cooperative approach to perestroika born of "oops, I almost destroyed the world. " Beside which, I remain convinced that after a year of frozen Iranian assets and a special ops raid on the hostages captors, categorical refusals to trade the Ayatollah guns for hostages, the hostages were about to be released when a man willing to deal if it would win him the 1980 election offered Iran all they wanted. We'll never know what really happened, but we do know a few things:

The hostages were released immediately after Wheels Up on Carters last flight on Airforce One, and Iran got guns funnelled through the Contras in the biggest scandal of Reagans administration, the one where he went on national TV to say, "this administration did not trade arms for hostages" and again shortly thereafter to say, "well, OK, maybe we did, maybe I knew, and maybe I lied to all of you about it; sorry.... "

Oh, and we know the man widely believed to be Reagans point man during the 1980 negotiations had a stroke and died right before he testified to Congress about it.

Nothing like a little treason to put "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" in perpsective, eh? Having set the precedent that the US would negotiate with terrorists if it was to the advantage of the right individual, there are very things I put past St. Ronnie (I thought only I called him that) and certainly seeking a third term when he was already suffering reduced faculties isn't one of them.
Accountability is not a given in the private sector as it is in a free democracy. Maybe on paper, but it ignores things like monopolies, collusion and exploitation, the things private industry critics of government like to ignore. Really, the only differences between a government service and a private one are that the former isn't obligated to bill you more than it costs them to provide it nor do you automatically have the option of replacing them with someone better.

I don't believe the government is obligated to bill me equal to the cost of services rendered either, as we have been discussing gas taxes and road tolls, I'd say those make pretty good examples. ;) Assuming no cartels or monopolies (and as you know, I am not a laissez-faire capitalist since I don't think lack of gov't intervention even vaguely equates with the concept of free markets) the difference is that you can buy your product elsewhere if the price is cruddy, and I tend to prefer things privatized where possible. Even if we drove taxes up to 50% (and I'm talking gov't revenue as a percent of GDP) I'd still rather the gov't was merely the payer to private suppliers than the supplier itself. Unfortunetly when you only have one 'person' buying the service, you do tend to throw a wrench into a lot of the free market system.

The government isn't obligated to bill you at cost, no, but if they don't you have real recourse, at least potentially. I've got a lot more beefs with Prudentials CEO than with Perry right now; guess which one I can vote out of office in March or November (I get TWO chances with Perry if I vote in the primary!) There's no law that says just because the government offers a given service private companies can't, and that consumers are somehow magically prevented from taking a better private deal if one exists (this, by the way, is what keeps getting lost in the healthcare debate; every socialist country on earth has both public and private healthcare, but the difference is the former insures EVERYONE gets SOME minimum level of care. ) I don't have a problem with people paying more to drive on a government maintained but privately owned road if they so desire; I just don't want to be forced to do so.
I don't think a state governors senior staffer has the kind of resume that says he's suited for a given private position because of his public ones. We're not talking about a lifer who hits mandatory retirement age and ends up as a Boeing consultant.


But again I must plead ignorance. I only know of a few cases where this sort of thing goes on, besides the obvious public scandals, and they have all seemed legit or at least marginally so, I am not in a position to confirm or contradict you on this matter.

Although between our discussions and the research I've felt obliged to do bercause of it I'm probably now better informed on this than most Texans :) So I'm not sure how valid that excuse is at this state.

Fair enough; I honestly don't know the mans resume myself, but if he had better legal options in government I'm sure he would've taken them.
*nods* I can understand it if done right, even if I don't really agree. You get it back at the gas pump, I reckon.

More or less, realistically the higher speeds people travel on them at is probably using more fuel than medium-heavy traffic occasional braking does. The faster you're going, the more energy you lose to air resistance per distance. So I wouldn't say you really save at the pump, but certainly you do in time. And of course avoiding those toll roads to take back country roads will involve some winding, probably equalling out or exceeding what you burn on the freeway. HArd to say, but in theory, yeah. The gas taxes are supposed to pay for the roads, so the tolls save people who don't benefit from those roads a fair amount of money, and toll roads aren't evenly distributed like normal roads are.

The gas tax was what I had in mind, yes; theoretically, if you have a lot of toll roads the gas taxes primarily used for road maintenance should be less. Though I wouldn't take it as given. ;)

I generally agree; while I'm not a fan of them myself, I do think the HPV vaccine should be freely available to everyone who wants it. Ironically, that's one of the issues with Perry executive order (which the state Legislature basically met with "Aw, HELL, no!" ) that Gardasil is still a fairly expensive vaccine, in part because it has to be administered multiple times to be effective, and that requiring it for every school girl in a state of ~20 million was going to make Merck a LOT of money.

Yes, in this case I would say freely available but not mandatory, with an effort at a public awareness campaign, would be sufficient. Ironically Merck probably would not be making the profit you might expect, lots of big pharm doesn't like to touch vaccines today, they're not profitable typically, or so I'm told. This is one of those cases cited inside my own wing of politics for tort reform - not to reopen that but it is cited as a reason, take that for what you will.

*shrugs* They weren't talking about A HPV vaccine, but specifically about Gardasil (I believe there is one competing vaccine, but contracts being contracts, it was the only one they were going to administer here. ) They didn't need tort reform, just a private hotline to the Governor. Though that's a great way in itself to get tort reform. ;)
It's a touchy and fuzzy area (sex ed itself, I mean, not the anatomy involved. :P) It's all well to say, "not my kid" but maybe I don't want your son pressuring my daughter into sex, or refusing to wear a condom because he doesn't like how it feels and, anyway, he hasn't slept with a LOT of girls and she can't get pregnant since she's a virgin. If we accept compulsory education (and some don't) then knowing how to minimize the risk of pregnancy/STDs as a result of sex is at least as important to society as knowing how the inverse square rule of gravitation. Guess which one most people use more. ;) The suggestion kids are learning about sex in school is laughable; it's often true, but (usually) not because of the teachers....

Well, I can honestly say I use the inverse square laws a lot more than I have sex, not that my younger days were by any means celibate, I just happen to use that law several dozen times a day, probably more in school. It's just built in to my thinking, but point taken. As I've said, I do not mind my kids being taught sex ed in school, as I'm likely to approach it as I was taught, although not likely exactly the same way, which was basically a note on the fridge from my mother telling me I should consider researching social stigmas around intercourse and STD 'ideally before you hit puberty, I can recommend some texts on the matter if you wish' IIRC. I believe I was 10 or 11 at the time. Ah, the childhood one can have with a distracted hippy for a mom, my sister and I regular joke about how amazing it is we're both borderline draconian thugs with a parent like that ;)

Heh, I suppose so; that's actually not a bad counterexample of why "leave it up to mom and dad" isn't exactly a panacea, though it doesn't seem any lasting harm was done in your case. :P I'm not unsympathetic to the critics position; I think it incumbent on parents to do at least as good a job teaching kids about sex as schools, or at least inform them as much as they're able, but even among we who are sympathetic there's a certain perplexity at people who decry welfare for single mothers of eight AND decry comprehensive sex ed. And make no mistake: I'm a veteran of that debate on wotmanias CMB, and used to taking fire from both sides for my position sex ed SHOULD be comprehensive, meaning kids are taught

1) The only 100% effective way of avoiding pregnancy and most STDs is abstinence,

2) If you INSIST on sex many birth control measures are available, of variable efficacy against STDs,

3) There's a right and wrong way to use each of them and

4) None of them has the success rate of abstinence.

It's the right way to teach the subject in schools, IMHO; it's also an equal opportunity offender, offering something for both the "sex, drugs and rock 'n roll111" crowd and the "my kids will never have sex unless someone tells them about it" groups to hate.
I was trying not to go there; illiteracy can be a sensitive subject for some (flip side, most of them won't be offended by reading our comments on it. )

True, but never underestimate the ability of people to get offended on someone else's behalf... although I would be seriously surprised if anyone besides you and I are still reading this posts at this stage :)

Likely so; the days when people brought popcorn to watch the back and forth are likely behind us, at least for now.
It's not like companys can't appeal if they think the verdict is wrong or too harsh, and whether or not they do judges have been known to reduce judgments or order juries to make new ones (in fact, exactly that happened in one of John Edwards' "Four Trials. " ) Let a jury of peers do their job as the Constitution and God intended.

I want to emphasize, by the way, that I am by no means suggesting what the limits should be, just that there should be there and should be at least slightly higher, but not enormously higher, than what the public as a whole views as fair.

Why? This is still a democracy, or at least a constitutional republic, right? Even in a republic, if we legislate it we're still talking about what the public as a whole thinks fair; why make it the always awful one size fits all solution instead of letting them decide on a case by case basis of merit? At least a jury will have all the legal and particular facts if the plaintiffs attorney does his job (you can bet the firm on retainer will do theirs. )
Sounds a lot like group think to me, but, once again, there are fewer variations on "the old ways are best" than on "change. " Bush never struck me as sincere while Governor or President; there are plenty of other examples (such as the "downsize government" candidate leading the biggest and most expensive expansion of government in US history) but the best is still invoking 911 at every opportunity while telling me how unconcerned he was about the man responsible (then denying it later. )

I don't want to imply that the right wing is all about the status quo, no more so than the left is about toppling everything, obviously there are those who go that way in a fairly serious fashion, but we're not monolithic, we just are leery of of somethings. We're not even against change, we just don't like social engineering and certain aspects of socialism that we consider to be basically unavoidable no matter the best intentions of those seeking to implement it... of course many of us do not believe they have the best intentions either.

The right tends to be a lot more monolithic, in my experience, though, no, not absolutely so. Typically when I see calls for "change" from the right it's "change BACK" and repeal reforms that were instituted for very real and grave reasons. Thus my old quip that Republicans too often want to "reform" a flawed government program the way vets "treat" horses with broken legs. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater may keep your tub clean, but it's not worth the cost.
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Palin reads Cheat Notes. - 08/02/2010 12:43:02 AM 1320 Views
Is it really worse than reading answers on a teleprompter? sorry, I see no big deal here. *NM* - 08/02/2010 01:02:49 AM 211 Views
yes yes it is. a teleprompter is subtle - 08/02/2010 01:22:17 AM 501 Views
a teleprompter is not subtle - 08/02/2010 02:25:46 PM 441 Views
staring openly and blatantly at your hand is? *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:09:25 PM 285 Views
I think if anyone else had done the dame thing we wouldn't even had heard about - 08/02/2010 06:13:44 PM 438 Views
you're right, we probably would not have heard about it - 08/02/2010 07:56:09 PM 475 Views
Yes for what the notes were - 08/02/2010 12:44:35 PM 466 Views
no biggie *NM* - 08/02/2010 02:00:12 AM 234 Views
Isn't her 15 minutes over yet? *NM* - 08/02/2010 02:45:58 AM 315 Views
This only obscures the rational reasons for duly decrying her political popularity. Moooooooo. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:19:45 AM 287 Views
I disagree, I think it underscores it. - 08/02/2010 03:39:57 AM 435 Views
Or they might believe that a far left liberal - 08/02/2010 04:16:51 AM 451 Views
Calling someone who needs a cheat sheet for their talking points stupid isn't an ad hominem, IMHO. - 08/02/2010 12:13:36 PM 452 Views
soory but your wrong, again - 08/02/2010 02:23:31 PM 411 Views
You shouldn't need reminders of your major themes after two years pushing them. - 08/02/2010 02:55:22 PM 439 Views
That's a bit silly - 08/02/2010 08:40:25 PM 603 Views
I'm perfectly happy to discuss her positions; I just think Huckabee does a better job of it. - 09/02/2010 10:26:54 AM 616 Views
Well, let's discuss some of these points - 09/02/2010 07:13:33 PM 625 Views
Re: Well, let's discuss some of these points - 10/02/2010 09:15:04 AM 648 Views
Re: Well, let's discuss some of these points - 10/02/2010 06:49:51 PM 696 Views
Ironically, Palin seems to agree this is different than using a teleprompter for a speech. - 11/02/2010 09:05:19 AM 592 Views
Again, two seperate things - 11/02/2010 09:51:15 PM 431 Views
Agreed, but Palin and other Republicans, not I, drew the comparison. - 15/02/2010 01:02:25 PM 558 Views
Just to get the obligatory Feinstein comment out of the way... - 15/02/2010 11:43:42 PM 627 Views
Hadn't heard, actually. - 19/02/2010 06:58:50 AM 561 Views
Re: Hadn't heard, actually. - 19/02/2010 08:32:11 AM 551 Views
Ah. - 23/02/2010 09:55:45 PM 633 Views
Re: Ah. - 24/02/2010 01:32:34 AM 585 Views
Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement. - 01/03/2010 03:51:49 AM 577 Views
Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement. - 01/03/2010 11:46:24 PM 766 Views
Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement. - 05/03/2010 12:11:48 AM 662 Views
Random Title - 05/03/2010 02:49:59 AM 575 Views
Re: Random Title - 15/03/2010 05:37:22 AM 510 Views
Re: Random Title - 15/03/2010 09:17:53 PM 823 Views
Re: Random Rejoinder - 29/03/2010 03:45:08 PM 553 Views
Re: Random Rejoinder - 30/03/2010 12:34:23 AM 1191 Views
Oh dear, who ever let you two get into a subthread together? - 15/03/2010 10:31:24 PM 636 Views
Ben was asleep at the switch, clearly. - 29/03/2010 02:48:46 PM 595 Views
oh yes, and the right never uses ad hominem - 08/02/2010 03:56:42 PM 405 Views
This is petty and also rather ignorant - 08/02/2010 03:59:40 AM 585 Views
There had to be better ways, though - 08/02/2010 08:36:50 AM 355 Views
so you're saying you're as dumb as sarah palin? - 08/02/2010 10:55:00 AM 408 Views
Basically yes - 08/02/2010 06:57:16 PM 471 Views
a couple of points... - 09/02/2010 01:53:29 AM 432 Views
Let me get this straight. - 08/02/2010 03:59:40 AM 505 Views
Okay, folks, it's not that she had a cheat sheet. - 08/02/2010 04:39:06 AM 469 Views
Style is EVERYTHING, dammit! *NM* - 08/02/2010 05:34:14 AM 246 Views
As Cheat Sheet was raised as an objection, so it clearly was - 08/02/2010 06:16:57 AM 564 Views
It's completely unprofessional - 08/02/2010 08:27:47 AM 428 Views
why? - 08/02/2010 02:29:44 PM 456 Views
well it's all she's got going for her. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:10:37 PM 195 Views
You know that's a good question - 08/02/2010 05:19:10 PM 420 Views
maybe you are just projecting - 08/02/2010 06:15:57 PM 428 Views
well what is the association we have with notes on hands? - 08/02/2010 07:58:41 PM 445 Views
or people on the far left are being grossly disingenuous - 08/02/2010 08:18:06 PM 557 Views
dude, only posted it because it was funny - 08/02/2010 08:43:55 PM 417 Views
I agree on your title - 09/02/2010 11:30:11 AM 492 Views
Who cares? She's hot. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:06:58 PM 211 Views
I agree with your first sentence. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:07:31 PM 271 Views
I also totally agree with that first sentence. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:48:24 PM 236 Views
Much ado about nothing. She was just making sure she didn't forget anything. - 09/02/2010 02:00:56 AM 404 Views
No, humble would have been note cards. *NM* - 09/02/2010 05:55:27 AM 212 Views
Nah, note cards can be dropped or lost. - 09/02/2010 03:03:25 PM 417 Views
She's such a retard. *NM* - 09/02/2010 02:46:51 AM 236 Views
Maybe - 09/02/2010 09:29:45 AM 458 Views
No offense, girlie. - 09/02/2010 11:36:55 AM 555 Views
She should have left herself a note... - 09/02/2010 11:04:34 PM 423 Views

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