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And then there are huge leaps of logic like the correlation between societal freedom & jails Cannoli Send a noteboard - 19/05/2017 01:27:45 AM

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To take one obvious case, it's quite relevant for Americans to know that the 'land of the free' ranks second in the world (behind, bizarrely, the Seychelles) when it comes to the percentage of its population locked up in prison at any given time. Especially when you look at how vast the differences are; to take three other major countries, the US has 1.5 times Russia's rate, but 5 times that of the UK and more than 8 times as many people in prison, per capita, as Germany.

People in jail are obviously the outliers in society. The important thing is why they are in jail. There is no rational or obvious reason why a free society should naturally inhibit say, murder, or other anti-social behavior, nor is it a reflection on the freedom enjoyed by the rest of the citizenry if lots of such criminals are locked up. In point of fact, locking up criminals is a means to freedom for everyone else. That issue is just semantic nonsense, playing on the various meanings and connotations of the word 'free'.

But that's as a point of principle, and in reality, of course, there are considerable issues with the current system and its prison-industrial complex, but again, comparison to other countries don't really mean as much. I see no reason why it is odd that the Seychelles should be first, given how small their population and the propensity for statistical clustering in small samples. That's why in ACTUAL competitions that use averages and rates of occurrence to determine a leader in achievement, they have a minimum qualifying number.


There may be good reasons to be an outlier in international comparisons - whether it's conscious choices to do things differently, or just unintended but logical consequences of cultural or physical differences.

Not to mention the effectiveness of the system. There are clearly differences in the quality of law enforcement in the US and in Mexico, and the results are undeniably skewed in one direction, given all the Mexicans who vote with their feet to play Russian roulette with our ravenous prison-industrial complex, rather than enjoy the greater freedoms of their homeland.
But if you don't make the comparisons, you can't know if there are logical reasons for them,

But the comparisons expressed as ranks are meaningless, as the criteria selected for ranking. Only a lunatic would seriously suggest that Mexico is doing something better than the US in regards to criminal justice, regardless of their "superior" rate of imprisonment.
or if in fact they suggest that there may be more efficient ways to organize a certain aspect of society, without violating the national principles and preferences. Which I would say is most certainly the case with the American incarceration rate.
Which is absolutely true, BUT not at all demonstrated by comparing our imprisonment rate to other countries where the plethora of differences render such comparisons meaningless.
That said, I haven't seen the show you mentioned and it's entirely possible the guy was just being a jackass.
Based on the "authorial insertion" characters of the one TV show I have watched by the same main-writer, I would bet that way too.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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