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I may have been a little provocative on purpose there. Legolas Send a noteboard - 23/05/2017 11:09:01 PM

View original postPeople in jail are obviously the outliers in society. The important thing is why they are in jail. There is no rational or obvious reason why a free society should naturally inhibit say, murder, or other anti-social behavior, nor is it a reflection on the freedom enjoyed by the rest of the citizenry if lots of such criminals are locked up. In point of fact, locking up criminals is a means to freedom for everyone else. That issue is just semantic nonsense, playing on the various meanings and connotations of the word 'free'.

True as far as it goes, a society doesn't become more 'free' by declining to lock up a murderer. And yeah, to some extent I was just teasing (turns out, if you boast too much about yourself, whether you're a person or a country, others will try to put you in your place - who knew? ).

But as you say, the important thing is why they are in jail. While there may be good reasons, relating to public health or to other things, for banning drug use, I don't think it's absurd to say that putting people behind bars for drug use, or putting them behind bars for much longer periods, makes a country less free than another country, all else being equal (yeah, which it never is).

View original postBut that's as a point of principle, and in reality, of course, there are considerable issues with the current system and its prison-industrial complex, but again, comparison to other countries don't really mean as much. I see no reason why it is odd that the Seychelles should be first, given how small their population and the propensity for statistical clustering in small samples. That's why in ACTUAL competitions that use averages and rates of occurrence to determine a leader in achievement, they have a minimum qualifying number.

Certainly agreed on that last point. Some people like to point out that, on a per capita basis, the US isn't even close to being the wealthiest country on the planet. Which is factually true, but only if you're comparing the US to countries with like 1-2 percent of its population, or even less.

Hence my choice of a handful of other large countries to compare to instead. Whether the US ranked first or second or tenth or fiftieth is indeed much less important than how its numbers compare to those of its peers (yeah, it doesn't have exact peers obviously, but the closest you can get to that).

So we may not disagree all that much in the end - a ranking position in itself doesn't say much without digging deeper into the topic. At best it gives you a rough idea, as it does here, but sometimes not even that after you've added in all caveats and qualifiers.

View original postWhich is absolutely true, BUT not at all demonstrated by comparing our imprisonment rate to other countries where the plethora of differences render such comparisons meaningless.

Not the ranking position as such, it is pretty clearly demonstrated by the way your rate is 5 times Britain's and 8 times Germany's, though.

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