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I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 24/08/2017 10:53:44 PM

And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

I don't like this article. Mostly because I disagree with it. Partially because my disagreement with it is landing me alongside Cannoli and Goldwater.

I don't think our politics needs moderates. I think our politics needs pragmatism, civility, and understanding. Ultimately, though, I don't think what Brooks is describing here is moderation. I think he's describing pragmatism, civility, and understanding. I'm a (democratic) socialist. That's not a moderate position in the United States. It's a pretty far left position (admittedly, as far as "far left" goes, it's pretty moderate). That doesn't mean I don't work together with conservatives who are against the death penalty for religious reasons. I don't merely tolerate them; I actively desire to work with them. I'm a public defender who is close, but not quite there, to being an incarceration abolitionist. That doesn't mean I don't have friends who are prosecutors.

There is no value per se in "centrism," any more than there is value in being on the fringe. What is valuable is pragmatism and bipartisanship--which I will freely grant is generally more prevalent among centrists. Also--what is centrism? Is it being always in the middle? Is it being on the extreme left in some things and on the extreme right in others? Is it merely ideological independence?

The idea that we should always avoid fighting "with relentless fervor and moral clarity" is repulsive to me. There are lines in the sand which should never be crossed. Brooks has a point that the left is frequently going far overboard in its response to Trump, but he is throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.

Lastly, I find the claim that the truth varies according to our values to be absurd, although I recognize that it is a view espoused by many intelligent and educated people, you and Brooks included. Our perception varies according to our values. That which we perceive is immutable.

...I would make such a better conservative than I do a leftist.

"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

This message last edited by Ghavrel on 24/08/2017 at 10:54:25 PM
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I won't eat cheese pizza. *NM* - 24/08/2017 07:43:03 PM 316 Views
Cheese (Actually extra cheese pizza is my favorite) - 25/08/2017 06:29:41 PM 670 Views
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Because from what you've written and said - 25/08/2017 06:28:46 PM 614 Views
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. - 24/08/2017 10:53:44 PM 483 Views
Yes. You would. - 25/08/2017 01:06:47 AM 641 Views
We'll make a conservative of you yet. - 25/08/2017 02:36:01 PM 549 Views
I am unsurprised at your disagreement. - 25/08/2017 06:42:32 PM 589 Views
Re: I am unsurprised at your disagreement. - 25/08/2017 11:01:56 PM 613 Views
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Re: Well now, this will get into the meaning of truth. - 26/08/2017 01:16:56 AM 689 Views
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