Active Users:405 Time:17/09/2025 01:42:59 AM
You've missed the point. The Shrike Send a noteboard - 22/01/2018 01:53:59 AM

View original post
Most letters were once pictures that were stylized and ended up being shorthand for what they depicted. In fact, it's very hard to find any letters that aren't originally pictures. Norse runes qualify, as do the Phoenician-based alphabets (which are almost all of them). Even in Cyrillic, many of the extra letters were actually stolen from Coptic, such as the щ, from the Coptic cаще, "field". It depicts rushes growing and is a stylized form of the Egyptian hieroglyph. The same goes for ч, though in that case the phonetic value radically changed (from /f/ to /ch/). And, of course, the rest came from Greek.

In the case of "ng", although it appears to just be a variant of an existing letter, it was totally unnecessary and made up out of whole cloth. The combination of n+g had already been used for centuries and there is no word pair in which the sense changes if the n+g is nasalized or if the g is actually pronounced. Hence, it's a made-up letter.

Finally, other letters that have been created as variants of existing letters are created to symbolize a sound that doesn't exist in the language the alphabet is derived from. In the case of "ng", that's also not true.


They were all fake because someone had to start using the letters to depict the sound. But not everyone accepted it immediately. It worked its way from someone creating it to the point where everyone accepted it.

Reply to message
The Fascinating History of 10 Extra Letters the English Alphabet Used to Have - 18/01/2018 06:35:45 PM 1200 Views
I have to take issue with the & and the "long s" - 18/01/2018 07:28:09 PM 542 Views
Ok, let's define what a letter is. - 18/01/2018 11:25:22 PM 593 Views
Yes, the long "s" is just a variant. It didn't have a name in Old English. - 19/01/2018 03:39:51 PM 736 Views
I don't think not having a name in Old English matters here. - 19/01/2018 05:05:47 PM 840 Views
I think it does, quite definitively. - 20/01/2018 08:46:24 PM 580 Views
All th Germans I have known have considered ß to be a letter. - 20/01/2018 11:01:40 PM 633 Views
ß is a ligature - 21/01/2018 04:04:48 PM 547 Views
That article is even sloppier than the first - 20/01/2018 09:01:33 PM 534 Views
All letters were once "fake". - 20/01/2018 10:59:11 PM 617 Views
Isn't that kind of idealist - 21/01/2018 08:02:14 AM 582 Views
Realist perhaps - 22/01/2018 01:54:14 AM 544 Views
Pivots - 22/01/2018 03:43:56 AM 660 Views
Meanwhile - 22/01/2018 12:23:13 PM 501 Views
Olympics are grand aren't they? *NM* - 22/01/2018 05:23:56 PM 307 Views
Deutschland, Deutschland! - 22/01/2018 05:26:50 PM 446 Views
No, actually that's quite incorrect. - 21/01/2018 04:14:18 PM 554 Views
You've missed the point. - 22/01/2018 01:53:59 AM 578 Views
No, I'm trying to show the qualitative difference between the two events. - 22/01/2018 04:34:20 PM 479 Views
The letter J? *NM* - 22/01/2018 05:19:14 PM 360 Views
No, J is a lot like the long s. - 22/01/2018 07:23:01 PM 533 Views
Feels we are talking past each other. - 22/01/2018 07:52:53 PM 588 Views
You're wrong. - 23/01/2018 01:21:26 AM 630 Views
Agreed. Ligatures aren't letters. *NM* - 19/01/2018 06:13:43 AM 339 Views
Eh . . . the Ampersand is probably now considered a logogram rather than a ligature. - 19/01/2018 01:27:21 PM 535 Views
ſ is just a variant. *NM* - 19/01/2018 03:40:53 PM 384 Views
I enjoy this thread muchly...yet I will not participate besides saying - 19/01/2018 10:46:40 PM 522 Views
You're using sublime too often; it's losing its luster - 20/01/2018 12:15:10 AM 571 Views
Do I? (in regards to sublime) - 20/01/2018 12:46:35 AM 493 Views
(in regards to sublime) - 20/01/2018 03:18:04 PM 549 Views
Brilliant! *NM* - 20/01/2018 03:38:39 PM 307 Views
- 20/01/2018 11:20:11 PM 548 Views
*NM* - 23/01/2018 09:18:01 PM 314 Views
Is this payback for the irritating word, Umami? - 24/01/2018 07:25:56 AM 439 Views
Upapi? *NM* - 25/01/2018 08:41:14 PM 353 Views
Thank all gods everywhere they are gone. - 22/01/2018 12:23:34 PM 529 Views
Some other letters should go too. - 22/01/2018 01:12:31 PM 596 Views
How would you replace the ch sound? - 22/01/2018 04:15:04 PM 547 Views
I thought of removing C, as well. - 22/01/2018 06:16:20 PM 532 Views
The CH is a problem. - 22/01/2018 06:34:47 PM 451 Views
And calling people you don't like "fu king unts"? *NM* - 22/01/2018 07:25:29 PM 411 Views
Meanwhile if it were written as fuking kunts, no one would have any issues - 22/01/2018 07:54:41 PM 597 Views
I have an issue, kunts looks too much like nuts or knuts - 22/01/2018 08:09:52 PM 526 Views
Would you prefer a Knut? - 22/01/2018 10:55:09 PM 496 Views
Yes I like my internet memes and thus I do not want to be confused by that word sometimes directed - 23/01/2018 10:28:58 PM 474 Views
Yes, ask him - 24/01/2018 01:32:08 AM 501 Views
Totes I will ask him about Tot *NM* - 24/01/2018 09:49:45 PM 335 Views
Yes, about the meanings. Pronounced quite differently. - 25/01/2018 06:17:22 PM 607 Views
Scheisse. I did forget it. - 26/01/2018 05:24:21 PM 512 Views
You mean Scheiße? *NM* - 26/01/2018 06:49:26 PM 338 Views
No. I mean Scheisse. *NM* - 26/01/2018 07:15:21 PM 357 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2018 11:07:18 PM 408 Views
*NM* - 28/01/2018 02:15:03 AM 328 Views
all those k's.... - 22/01/2018 08:23:09 PM 482 Views
So . . . no Klondike bars or Kit Kats for you. - 22/01/2018 10:55:53 PM 582 Views
But it would look "fuking" stupid - 23/01/2018 01:30:15 AM 511 Views
All languages change - 23/01/2018 01:40:18 AM 491 Views
They change, but resistance is not futile. - 23/01/2018 02:10:17 AM 563 Views
Also, you're not talking about the language changing. You're talking about changing the language. - 23/01/2018 02:16:39 AM 576 Views
I am being a realist who understands that spellings change. Letters get dropped. Language evolves. - 23/01/2018 06:53:25 PM 602 Views
It is posts like this that remind me why you are my RAFO tree - 23/01/2018 10:29:53 PM 480 Views
Nope sadly he did not *NM* - 23/01/2018 10:30:09 PM 264 Views
What are you talking about here? - 24/01/2018 12:21:55 PM 531 Views
I am talking about Logograms - 24/01/2018 09:48:48 PM 518 Views
Evolution, not revolution - 23/01/2018 10:54:37 PM 630 Views

Reply to Message