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As opposed to the Presidents who did it to Stalin, the actual tyrant, complete with genocide & WMDs? Cannoli Send a noteboard - 18/07/2018 12:47:57 AM

The Roosevelt & Truman administrations handed Stalin actual US treasury currency plates with which he could counterfeit American currency. They allowed his spies to carry classified information out of the country in diplomatic pouches and supplied the Soviet leadership with personal luxury goods under the cover of military aid, as well as technology that had little to no wartime applications.

They handed over half of Europe to Stalin and plotted to conceal it from the American people for the purposes of electoral success, they disarmed Chinese resistance to Soviet-backed troops, handed over parts of eastern Asia to the USSR in return for unnecessary military aid against a nation that was begging to surrender. They ignored all warnings and efforts at security to allow Stalin access to nuclear technology, and protected Soviet agents, informants and sympathizers in the highest ranks of the US government.

They used firehoses to force onto transport ships, prisoners who had never been Soviet citizens or subjects, because Stalin wanted revenge on them. They threw refugees from Stalin's genocide, tyranny, political purges and leveling sprees back into his maw, and bragged about what good friends they were.

All of Trump's praise of Putin sounds like a cold-shoulder next to FDR's effusive flattery.

Putin is not, and never has been the enemy of any vital US interest. It was the US that broke an informal agreement with Russia after the fall of the USSR to not expand NATO, and promptly ran the alliance right up to Russia's doorstep. We were the ones who intervened in a civil war in Syria, giving aid & support to enemies of Putin's ally. It was Bush, public Hillary supporter, who broke a thirty year old ABM treaty and it was US support that helped the Ukrainian regime change. By contrast Putin's seizure of Crimea was merely reclaiming lands that had always been Russian and which were alienated to Ukraine by the Soviets, and with relatively little bloodshed compared to what we have caused in the Middle East & Balkans over the four administrations prior to Trump.

And if unwitting open-mike comments are an ironclad indicator of a President's intentions and actions, and amicable words to post-Soviet Russian leaders are treason, what about Obama's comments to Medvedev that he'd be able to cooperate more after his reelection, when he no longer had to answer to the American people?

Remember, those same people elected Trump over Clinton, whose disparity in attitudes toward Russia were so extreme and blatant that their legislature supposedly broke into spontaneous applause at the news of his win. Maybe it's time for the government of, by and for the People to stop fucking around with stuff that doesn't concern us lest we follow the lead of other leaders of great powers. Churchill once talked about Cromwell's biggest mistake being his fixation on Spain to the point where he missed the rise of France as his country's new rival and those comments were in a context suggest he had made the same mistake his whole career with Germany and the USSR in the respective place of Spain & France. Maybe we're doing the same with with Russia and China. If we REALLY have to be number one great power, isn't Russia a natural ally against the threat of China? Britain ended the Great Game in order to bring Russia into the fold against Germany, and spent half a century under the threat of Russian nuclear annihilation, to the point of joining a formal alliance with Germany. And now they are trying to shake loose of the tarpit that alliance drew them into. Geopolitical facts change. If it is, in fact, time to change the relationship with Russia, isn't that Trump's prerogative? Are some nice words really supposed to matter more than his berating the nations of Europe for not spending more for defense against Russia?

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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trump is not the first US president to hand the white house to the russian government - 17/07/2018 07:22:36 PM 1093 Views
What about Ted Kennedy's alleged 1984 request to Andropov to help him win the Presidency? - 17/07/2018 07:59:12 PM 532 Views
This isn't based on the Steele dossier - 17/07/2018 08:50:04 PM 512 Views
Hanlon's razor, really. - 17/07/2018 11:50:17 PM 553 Views
It wouldn't be the first time. - 17/07/2018 11:57:13 PM 452 Views
I just believe the stupidity came earlier - 18/07/2018 12:09:20 AM 481 Views
Apparently you also believe Putin is equally stupid. - 18/07/2018 12:15:29 AM 449 Views
Why? - 18/07/2018 03:35:33 AM 451 Views
Obviously - 18/07/2018 03:49:34 AM 528 Views
Oh please - 18/07/2018 05:39:01 AM 478 Views
Mookie - 18/07/2018 04:13:03 PM 491 Views
Well said. - 18/07/2018 06:03:17 PM 464 Views
Notice how everyone claims to understand what Russia wants? - 22/07/2018 05:55:44 AM 483 Views
What does Russia actually want? - 22/07/2018 04:15:07 PM 525 Views
To be treated and respected as a significant power - 23/07/2018 04:20:26 PM 530 Views
Thanks, that was a very interesting read. - 23/07/2018 10:39:07 PM 455 Views
New questions..... - 24/07/2018 01:19:04 AM 454 Views
So many ways to answer this - 24/07/2018 03:16:30 AM 530 Views
That was a good answer. *NM* - 24/07/2018 04:13:50 PM 279 Views
*Claps* well said. *NM* - 24/07/2018 03:33:41 AM 277 Views
Honest question - 26/07/2018 05:50:38 PM 565 Views
Very interesting essay Tom. *NM* - 31/07/2018 03:54:26 PM 810 Views
I’ve always suspected... - 22/07/2018 06:45:28 PM 432 Views
Of course - 23/07/2018 04:22:32 PM 458 Views
Mental Shorthand - 24/07/2018 03:20:05 AM 458 Views
And how about Obama trying to defeat Netanyahu a few years ago? - 18/07/2018 03:31:00 AM 431 Views
Hey, that was also Soros *NM* - 18/07/2018 09:13:55 AM 265 Views
Not sure what the point of the homophobic imagery is... - 17/07/2018 08:38:42 PM 472 Views
I don't read much news.... - 17/07/2018 10:55:31 PM 455 Views
Re: I don't read much news.... - 17/07/2018 11:17:01 PM 455 Views
Re: I don't read much news.... - 18/07/2018 12:19:54 AM 504 Views
It appears you don't read much news either, Cannoli... - 18/07/2018 06:23:12 AM 403 Views
I agree with everything you have said, barring one thing: - 20/07/2018 12:14:14 PM 469 Views
Hmm - 21/07/2018 03:25:03 AM 438 Views
Re: Hmm - 21/07/2018 03:46:12 AM 465 Views
Re: Hmm - 26/07/2018 05:58:19 PM 428 Views
We see the world differently.... - 18/07/2018 11:08:27 PM 424 Views
Moondog be better than the NYT Opinion section please *NM* - 18/07/2018 12:17:03 AM 273 Views
As opposed to the Presidents who did it to Stalin, the actual tyrant, complete with genocide & WMDs? - 18/07/2018 12:47:57 AM 437 Views
moondog = *NM* - 04/08/2018 05:52:18 PM 242 Views

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