Active Users:1205 Time:05/08/2026 07:10:10 PM
If by "interesting" you mean shitty, then perhaps. Tom Send a noteboard - 29/07/2018 03:54:34 PM

First of all, I'm not sure why people even bother using Twitter if they want to make nuanced and lengthy arguments. It's a useless medium for that. He's not the first person I've seen to do this, but I certainly have very little patience for someone making arguments by chain Twitter.

Terrible choice of format aside, the guy is spinning Russian history to give it a pro-Ukrainian angle. I would take issue with most if not all of his characterizations, such as saying that the growth of Muscovy was due to "brutally conquering" other states. There were a few competing states that were conquered by force, but a great deal of the land Muscovy got was through inheritance following intermarriage, feudal pledges of fealty by small and weak states who needed protection and in some cases, purchase.

Also, I strongly take issue with his use of "Kyiv" as the name of the capital of Ukraine. It was Kiev in all the old chronicles - Kyiv is a modern name. It would be similar (not a perfect analogy, but useful nonetheless) to calling Constantinople "Istanbul" when talking about it c. 1000 AD.

He's also done a really shoddy job of explaining Russian learning. This is the same old tired theory about "not having access to learning" that I've heard from older sources. The problem is that it really ignores the reality of the situation. First of all, Old Church Slavonic was not so different from Old East Slavic (the predecessor of Russian) that people needed specialized training to understand it. I recently read a somewhat dry 800-page book about the history of the language and the differences are really not that strong. OCS was slightly different, so the OES gorod (city) became OCS grad, OES golova (head) became OCS glava, OES bereg (riverbank) became OCS breg. A lot of words didn't have complex consonant clusters is OES, so OCS nadezhda (hope) became OES nadezha. The conjugation system was slightly simpler in OES, but the OCS forms were recognized.

[EDIT: Let me add that I learned OCS in a couple of days based on my knowledge of Russian. I'm not sure if that was clear. Some of it can be read by any Russian speaker, but even the parts that need to be explained can be quickly and easily explained and isn't something that would take any significant expenditure of effort to learn]

Not only that, but all the monasteries were translating works from Greek into OCS/OES (creating a hybrid language that would become Russian). They had access to Greek philosophy and non-liturgical works. Not only that, but educated people in the court and monasteries in Muscovy learned Latin. The myth that Russia didn't have access to Western learning is just that.

The real difference is that Russian xenophobia made them suspicious of much of this learning. It took Peter the Great and other leaders (like Catherine the Great) who dragged Russia kicking and screaming into modernity.

Certainly, the choice of Orthodoxy meant that the church wasn't run from Rome, which later in Russian history meant the Church was subservient to the State (though in Muscovy the opposite was really true - the Church was if anything dictating terms to the tsars earlier on, and the Church perpetuated the rule by Mongols and Tatars because it benefited from the Mongols' disinterest in spiritual matters both economically and politically). However, this choice is again a reflection of a light xenophobia. Even had Russia accepted Catholicism, arguendo, it would have broken away early on because there was a high level of suspicion of outsiders.

That, by the way, is something that is common in "border areas" that are the object of constant invasions and attacks. I would argue that the geography shaped the culture, which shaped the choice of religion.

Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 29/07/2018 at 03:56:56 PM
Reply to message
trump is not the first US president to hand the white house to the russian government - 17/07/2018 07:22:36 PM 1597 Views
What about Ted Kennedy's alleged 1984 request to Andropov to help him win the Presidency? - 17/07/2018 07:59:12 PM 1045 Views
This isn't based on the Steele dossier - 17/07/2018 08:50:04 PM 1045 Views
Hanlon's razor, really. - 17/07/2018 11:50:17 PM 1085 Views
It wouldn't be the first time. - 17/07/2018 11:57:13 PM 948 Views
I just believe the stupidity came earlier - 18/07/2018 12:09:20 AM 1026 Views
Apparently you also believe Putin is equally stupid. - 18/07/2018 12:15:29 AM 954 Views
Why? - 18/07/2018 03:35:33 AM 948 Views
Obviously - 18/07/2018 03:49:34 AM 1029 Views
Oh please - 18/07/2018 05:39:01 AM 955 Views
Mookie - 18/07/2018 04:13:03 PM 1012 Views
Well said. - 18/07/2018 06:03:17 PM 1008 Views
Notice how everyone claims to understand what Russia wants? - 22/07/2018 05:55:44 AM 998 Views
What does Russia actually want? - 22/07/2018 04:15:07 PM 1031 Views
To be treated and respected as a significant power - 23/07/2018 04:20:26 PM 1103 Views
Thanks, that was a very interesting read. - 23/07/2018 10:39:07 PM 997 Views
There are other countries other than the US and Russia, but... - 24/07/2018 03:44:03 PM 1031 Views
New questions..... - 24/07/2018 01:19:04 AM 1017 Views
So many ways to answer this - 24/07/2018 03:16:30 AM 1069 Views
That was a good answer. *NM* - 24/07/2018 04:13:50 PM 581 Views
*Claps* well said. *NM* - 24/07/2018 03:33:41 AM 586 Views
Honest question - 26/07/2018 05:50:38 PM 1055 Views
Very interesting essay Tom. *NM* - 31/07/2018 03:54:26 PM 1153 Views
Here is another interesting Russian History Summary (I would also like some Tom Feedback.) - 29/07/2018 02:36:46 AM 1074 Views
If by "interesting" you mean shitty, then perhaps. - 29/07/2018 03:54:34 PM 1026 Views
I’ve always suspected... - 22/07/2018 06:45:28 PM 924 Views
Of course - 23/07/2018 04:22:32 PM 1005 Views
Mental Shorthand - 24/07/2018 03:20:05 AM 1009 Views
And how about Obama trying to defeat Netanyahu a few years ago? - 18/07/2018 03:31:00 AM 952 Views
Hey, that was also Soros *NM* - 18/07/2018 09:13:55 AM 566 Views
Not sure what the point of the homophobic imagery is... - 17/07/2018 08:38:42 PM 1017 Views
I don't read much news.... - 17/07/2018 10:55:31 PM 977 Views
Re: I don't read much news.... - 17/07/2018 11:17:01 PM 1014 Views
Re: I don't read much news.... - 18/07/2018 12:19:54 AM 1041 Views
It appears you don't read much news either, Cannoli... - 18/07/2018 06:23:12 AM 955 Views
I agree with everything you have said, barring one thing: - 20/07/2018 12:14:14 PM 998 Views
Hmm - 21/07/2018 03:25:03 AM 955 Views
Re: Hmm - 21/07/2018 03:46:12 AM 981 Views
Re: Hmm - 26/07/2018 05:58:19 PM 941 Views
We see the world differently.... - 18/07/2018 11:08:27 PM 949 Views
Moondog be better than the NYT Opinion section please *NM* - 18/07/2018 12:17:03 AM 547 Views
moondog = *NM* - 04/08/2018 05:52:18 PM 535 Views

Reply to Message