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IMO, that stuff all affects physical or metaphysical aspects, but not the soul itself. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 01/03/2019 01:31:20 PM


Ishamael tried ripping out Rand's soul in the heart of stone at the end of TDR. It only failed when Rand grasped Callandor and started pulling on the OP through it.
Eh, that's an untutored farmboy's opinion. Maybe he was actually pulling out his mind/consciousness/whatever goes to T'A'R and his lifeforce was coming with it, which would have the side effect of removing his soul from his body, as death does.
Hell, Moiraine knew multiple weaves to deal with the power of Shadar Logoth, which is soul based.
It's a type of energy that interacts with the world. That's not soul related.
<quotew>And of course, the connection to the OP is connected to the soul, meaning that Nynaeve(and everyone else that knows the weave) delved the soul of everyone whose connection to the OP she healed... Also, shields to block the OP go on the soul... And Warder bonds likely do as well. We don't know that it's connected through the soul. We know that the ability to channel is essential to a person beyond their physical qualities. That does not mean the connection to the Power is not physical. Channeling having physical effects on the channler in fact proves there IS a physical connection to the Power.
Hell, there is also whatever the hell that weave Rand used on the reflections that came out of the mirrors actually did.

No evidence at all that it has anything to do with a soul. It would be an alien consciousness taking over Rand's body or place in the world if they won, but it was a physical struggle, not anything to do with a soul.
Anyway, there.. a LOT of soul interaction going on with the OP... One of the five powers is called "spirit" for a reason.
They never actually call it Soul, though. They call Air Wind, but spirit is always Spirit, because it deals with non-tangible things, like Tel'Aran'Rhiod, or psychic phenomena, like the warder bond. That doesn't mean they can do anything to that essense of a person, that lives on after their death and returns to the world in a new body. In my head cannon, Tel'Aran'Rhiod is just another level of physical existence, in which the Heroes have bodies and a dreamer manifests a body to go there. Getting stabbed in T'A'R does not affect your soul, it affects your physical body, through the link between the two.
Honestly, it isn't that the OP "can't" rip someones soul out. It's just that, much like time stop weaves(yeah, another thing that the OP CAN do. It's what the Keeping weave is, and Sammael used a none lethal version of it once) it's just that... Well, while it might "sound" cool, it's just not practical.

If you want someone held in place, you can simply tie them up with Air. If you want someone dead... There are thousands of ways to do it, and exactly WHAT are you supposed to "do" with their soul?

That's my point. You can't do anything with it. Souls are utterly beyond the world or human action.
Even the Forsaken, hell, even the Dark One 99.9% of the time, doesn't really CARE if your average person's soul passes on. Meanwhile, your average non-Darkfriend would... kind of see it as an EXTREMELY evil act, and one just DONE for the lolz at that.

Perhaps if the ways and hows of Shadar Logoth's brand of magic were wide spread or commonly known, there would be more of a market for just going around ripping peoples souls out, but... They aren't, and there isn't.

I don't think ripping souls out is quite what they say it is. For the idea of a soul to mean anything, it has to be above and beyond human interaction. I would say that in addition to the soul, there is a non-corporeal aspect of existence, which can manifest in the physical world in someways and interact with the physical, but is still just a construct, a kind of housing for the soul. This non-corporeal form would be what interacts through telepathy, it's what makes ghosts, it's what hangs around in the World of Dreams or what gets pulled into a Dreamwalker's constructed reality. It's what Machin Shin or Shadar Logoth attacks. It's what Ishamael & Asmodean tried to pull out of Rand. In a wolf, it's what gets eaten by Darkhounds, it's what gets taken by a Draghkar in a human. It's the underlying energy matrix that powers the body and makes it a person. In the Ogier who came out of the Ways, I would say that non-corporeal thing was gone or heavily muted, and left his soul unable to connect with his body. The soul is still there, because the body is still alive, but that non-corporeal layer is how the soul interacts with the body, and when that is all messed up, you die and your soul moves on along the Wheel the same as if it was your flesh and blood that was too badly messed up to continue biological functions.

Yeah, this could be all bullshit, but its how I reconcile my own belief in metaphysical existence with fiction which features ghosts and psychic phenomena and the use of souls. When you sell your soul to a demonic entity, you can't actually do that, so what you are actually giving up is a higher level of existence, that will almost certainly result in your damnation when THAT level ends and you go on to your eternal reward, but for it to mean anything, the only thing that effect THAT end is your own actions and mentality, your ability to align yourself in tune with a higher state of being, to sing along with the music of Iluvatar, for an example. If whether you go to heaven or hell is affected by the actions of a third party, heaven and hell don't mean anything. So they are pit stops along the way, for that spirit-body, that intermediate level beyond the physical, but which in genre fiction, really manifests and interacts with the physical.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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I wonder if Grey Men were a "first step" for making gholam. *NM* - 27/02/2019 06:09:21 AM 448 Views
If there is any connection between them & Shadowspawn, it is as the inspiration for Shaidar Haran - 27/02/2019 01:57:50 PM 368 Views
On the OP and souls. - 01/03/2019 07:05:06 AM 355 Views
IMO, that stuff all affects physical or metaphysical aspects, but not the soul itself. - 01/03/2019 01:31:20 PM 348 Views
Re: IMO, that stuff all affects physical or metaphysical aspects, but not the soul itself. - 02/03/2019 09:47:00 AM 362 Views
Re: IMO, that stuff all affects physical or metaphysical aspects, but not the soul itself. - 02/03/2019 12:26:20 PM 349 Views
One quick issue.... - 02/03/2019 08:07:03 PM 334 Views
Re: One quick issue.... - 02/03/2019 09:26:27 PM 342 Views
Ok, that's a fair distinction. - 03/03/2019 03:45:13 AM 330 Views
The OP can interact with souls... - 02/03/2019 03:57:36 PM 346 Views
No it can't, or RJ is misusing the term "soul." - 02/03/2019 09:13:34 PM 480 Views
The Christian concept of soul, maybe. But RJ was clearly not sourcing his ideas from there... - 03/03/2019 06:45:13 PM 368 Views
Oh, and... - 03/03/2019 08:30:06 PM 347 Views
Doesn't true death in TAR preclude rebirth? - 03/03/2019 06:58:29 PM 338 Views
That's Hopper's opinion, regarding wolves. - 03/03/2019 07:16:27 PM 339 Views

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